Talent Report+THRIVE

Generational Differences: The New, The Now, The Experienced

Description: The most multi-generational workforce in history currently exists. Five generations are working together today. Pretty eye-opening, right? Jim Morgan, Vice President of Workforce Strategies at MRA, is here to discuss how, contrary to what some believe, the presence of five generations in the workforce is not a problem; it is an opportunity.
 
Key Takeaways:
One size does not fit all across generations or within generations! And that becomes a big headache for employers because it’s a lot easier to say, “Everybody comes in at 8 and leaves at 5."
 It really is a matter of being intentional with people and adjusting according to each employee's needs. 
 
Resources:
Generations of Stereotypes
 
Let's Connect:
Bio - Jim Morgan
Jim's LinkedIn Profile
 
Transcript: 
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:23:13 - 00:00:32:21
Sophie Boler
And I’m joined with Jim Morgan, our vice president of Workforce Strategies here at MRA. It’s good to have you back, Jim.
 
00:00:33:03 - 00:00:33:15
Jim Morgan
Good to be back.
 
00:00:34:01 - 00:01:00:15
Sophie Boler
Well, we talked last episode with Jim on the demographic problem or “the Great Sansdemic.” But today we’re here to really continue that conversation and talk about generational differences in the workplace. So a few podcasts ago, we actually talked about the candidate experience and you touched on how generational differences really plays into that experience. In fact, I recall that you grilled me on a few questions …
 
00:01:01:00 - 00:01:01:23
Jim Morgan
“Grill” is kind of a harsh word.
 
00:01:03:02 - 00:01:28:00
Sophie Boler
… On how I would approach a job search based on my interests and my generation. So we’ve brought you back today so I can grill you on this topic. But it is a good one and I have seen reports that talk about the fact that there are now five generations in the workforce. So potentially today’s workers could be working with a range from 20-year-olds to 70-year-olds.
 
00:01:28:00 - 00:01:48:04
Sophie Boler
So there’s a big gap there, but that has potential to have a huge impact in the workforce. So how can we make it all work? How can an employer expect us to work all together? Well, Jim is here to share some insights with us today. So let’s just mention the fact that between you and me, there are four generations.
 
00:01:48:04 - 00:01:51:23
Jim Morgan
Ouch! Well, welcome to you too!
 
00:01:54:01 - 00:02:11:18
Sophie Boler
We’re really looking at five different generations in the workforce, which include traditionalists, baby boomers, Generation X, Generation Y or millennials, and Generation Z. So, Jim, what does the generational makeup look like in the workforce right now?
 
00:02:12:08 - 00:02:39:20
Jim Morgan
Right now, the millennials are taking over. They’re at about 35 percent of the workplace. The Gen Xers are at about 30 percent. My group, the baby boomers, are slowly going out the other side, so we’re down to about 23 percent. And the young kids coming up, the Gen Z’s—your group—is making up about 12 percent. And there’s still a little sliver of that traditionalist, probably less than about 1 percent right now.
 
00:02:40:01 - 00:02:59:16
Sophie Boler
Okay. And I know you’ve been tracking this topic for most of your professional life. And we’re really here to hear about a number of stories on how employers are managing these generational differences. So what leads to generational stereotypes or how do we come up with these generalized opinions of each other?
 
00:03:00:05 - 00:03:24:16
Jim Morgan
You know, I think people first have to understand that every single generation has been stereotyped. I joke I’m part of the ponytailed, no-good, anti-war generation of never going to amount to anything. And now we own everything, so good for us! And it doesn’t really matter who you are, it’s just a matter of, you know, everybody thinks the next generation is basically going to be the end of the world as we know it.
 
00:03:25:07 - 00:03:48:17
Jim Morgan
So far, that hasn’t been true. So we’re all just trying to figure this out as we go along. But the stereotypes usually come along because either there is some consistency in pattern and behavior based on what’s going on in the world. And sometimes it’s, you know, okay, we’re going to make fun of each other. And I’ll give you an example from my generation, the “hey boomer,” you know, everybody saying, you know, what’s wrong with that?
 
00:03:49:19 - 00:04:10:07
Jim Morgan
But, you know, they ask questions like, you know, how come you’re walking around with cash and 10 credit cards? Why do you always shout every time you’re on Skype or on your cell phone? Why do you print out emails? My gosh, it’s right there in front of you. Why can’t you figure out for yourself how to take a Word document, make it into a PDF?
 
00:04:11:00 - 00:04:31:02
Jim Morgan
You know, and I could say, Oh my gosh, that’s not me, what are you talking about? But I also am smart enough to watch other people my age walk around and do exactly those things. So I think it just becomes a matter of some repetitive behaviors by some folks which are judged by different generations as, you know, what are you doing?
 
00:04:31:02 - 00:04:37:16
Jim Morgan
So those are some of the things that people say about the boomers. So I’m sure you heard some things. What are the ones that bother you a little bit?
 
00:04:38:13 - 00:04:59:03
Sophie Boler
I think we always get related back to technology, always, no matter if it’s in the workplace or outside of it. And it’s always just kind of like consumes our generation and also about the short attention span, I feel like you can’t keep us, I don’t know, engaged for more than 5 minutes. It’s got to be fun. It’s got to be,
 
00:04:59:10 - 00:05:00:16
Sophie Boler
Why is it worth my time?
 
00:05:01:01 - 00:05:02:13
Jim Morgan
You’re the goldfish generation.
 
00:05:02:13 - 00:05:03:11
Sophie Boler
Absolutely.
 
00:05:04:02 - 00:05:12:03
Jim Morgan
Anyone who’s ever had a goldfish, if you tap on the side of the bowl, you can hold their attention for 7 or 8 seconds. So that’s your, that’s your stereotype.
 
00:05:12:08 - 00:05:23:04
Sophie Boler
Well, let’s actually talk about the different values of each generation and how that affects each different generation as an employee. So I’m sure you have lots of stories to tell with each of those.
 
00:05:23:08 - 00:05:43:01
Jim Morgan
Yeah. And this gets to your stereotypes because even the one that we just talked about, you know, we’re saying, oh, you have no attention span or that’s what people say to you. It’s not an attention span thing. It’s this is how fast the world moves now. And there’s a reason that Twitter has 240 characters and TikToks can’t be more than a minute or two long.
 
00:05:43:01 - 00:06:01:21
Jim Morgan
And it’s just the way that that things go so that that happens. So I think you got to look at, you know, as a couple of different examples. I mean, anyone who, probably in your case has a grandparent or maybe a great-grandparent, who might still be around that lived through the Depression. Well, that has serious impact on folks in terms of I’m going to hang on to every dime I’ve got.
 
00:06:02:02 - 00:06:21:23
Jim Morgan
I don’t trust credit cards because the bank failed me. I’m just going to have cash and that’s that’s how I’m going to do business. So little things matter. So if you look at, for example, the family and what did the family look like 50 years ago? And it was Mom staying home, Dad going to work, you know, 3.7 children and a dog.
 
00:06:21:23 - 00:06:58:13
Jim Morgan
And that’s what a family was. And over time, that’s changed as a result of divorces, merged families, of same-sex families. I’m not saying anything is right, wrong or indifferent, but the definition of family has changed over the course of the of the generations. So that has an impact on people. The issue of education, which was out of reach for people for a long time, for my generation, it was like an expectation that we get to go to college, to people starting to question the value of college and now people are saying, “Hey, it’s going to be free.”
 
00:06:58:21 - 00:07:18:16
Jim Morgan
You know, and again, I’m not judging that saying right or wrong or indifferent, but when things like that happen, it has an impact. And so whether, you know, for my generation it was civil rights issues. For current generations, it might be school shootings. You had 9/11 in there to affect the generation we have. Now we’ve had a pandemic.
 
00:07:19:01 - 00:07:29:13
Jim Morgan
All of those things shape people in terms of who they are and how they function, and that sort of leads to, okay, there are differences among the generations because their experiences have been so different.
 
00:07:30:09 - 00:07:46:12
Sophie Boler
And now that we know what to expect from an employee side, let’s take it a step further and really examine how leaders interpret the generational differences in the workplace. So can you talk about the different leadership styles of each generation?
 
00:07:46:12 - 00:08:05:16
Jim Morgan
Yeah, you know, I don’t know so much that it’s the leadership style. I think it’s just the way that the world has changed that you’ve got to understand the people that are working for you. And in our case, one of the cases you’re in our internship program and we asked all of you, you know, what’s one of the biggest things that you want from your boss?
 
00:08:05:16 - 00:08:21:04
Jim Morgan
And it was “I want their cell phone number so I can text them.” Okay. Well, that’s your preferred method of communication. And I can guarantee you those Gen X and boomer bosses probably are like, “There is no way in the world I’m giving you my cell phone number so you can text me all day long.”
 
00:08:21:04 - 00:08:21:20
Sophie Boler
Right?
 
00:08:22:09 - 00:08:42:05
Jim Morgan
That’s not you being nosy or you wanting personal information—it’s your preferred method of communication. So, you know, how do we figure that out? So it goes back to when we talked about the candidate experience and what you’re expecting differently. So as a leader, I need to understand how you want to function and how you want to do get things done.
 
00:08:42:10 - 00:08:59:11
Jim Morgan
So that’s a little bit on me as a leader. As a leader, I need to be looking out for what are the benefits that are of interest to you. You may say, “Hey, I came out of college with $20,000 in student loan debt. That means more to me than anything,” whereas someone else might be saying, “I want to a 401(k).”
 
00:08:59:11 - 00:09:23:05
Jim Morgan
Someone else might want health care. But if I’m listening to what the needs of the people are that that work for me, I’ll begin to understand some of those things. If I know how you want to work—remote, in person, you like being with people, do you not like not like being with people. It’s not so much, I would say in that case, the generational we all are different in every generation and these generations have 80 million people in them.
 
00:09:23:05 - 00:09:45:08
Jim Morgan
So it’s not like everybody’s the same. But your expectation of you’re not going to be faxing anything, I can pretty much bet on that. You don’t want paragraphs of information, you want bullet points. So I’ve just got to understand how you function and what’s the right way for you. I learned that by doing performance reviews because, I mean, you’ve worked with me.
 
00:09:45:12 - 00:10:02:13
Jim Morgan
I’m not a real detail-oriented person. I’m not about, what are your five things? What are you going to do? What are you going to measure? I’m more about asking you, So what do you think’s important? And we’ll write them down and say, Okay, that sounds good, let’s go do that. That doesn’t work for some people. They want to know, “What are the three things I’m supposed to do?
 
00:10:02:13 - 00:10:23:16
Jim Morgan
How are you going to measure them?” And so you have to even look at the performance reviews and saying, “Okay, what are Sophie’s expectations?” And those might be different than someone else and someone else. So I’d say for the most part, it’s really getting to know the people that you’re working with and personalizing things to the extent where maybe you can understand where they’re coming from.
 
00:10:23:16 - 00:10:48:15
Sophie Boler
Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. And I think you mentioned about the flexibility, the flexibility to like, for example, I think a lot of people in my generation, if let’s say you had a meeting at 8:00, they might show up at 8:01 or 8:02. So maybe just, you know, changing how you approach those meetings to fit each generation and maybe it’s a Zoom call or something like that.
 
00:10:49:19 - 00:10:57:15
Sophie Boler
But can you share any insights on how the different generations might respond to these different leadership styles or even different generations?
 
00:10:58:00 - 00:11:16:12
Jim Morgan
Well, I mean, you just mentioned a couple of them. So I think people misinterpret, “Okay, we’re going to have a meeting at 4:00 on Friday afternoon” and an old-school person might be like, “yeah, that’s my way of making sure everybody’s still here at 4:00 because we work from 8 until 5. And I want to make sure that you’re there.”
 
00:11:17:00 – 00:11:34:07
Jim Morgan
Well, I’ve had people who work for me that are texting me at 3:00 in the morning, you know, saying, “Hey, I finished the project.” And that’s great. I’m not reading it at 3:00 in the morning, but they’re working at 3. They might work on weekends, they might work at night. You know, they’re getting the work done. So part of it becomes, are they getting done what you want to get done?
 
00:11:34:15 - 00:11:51:20
Jim Morgan
It’s not really so much my interest as to when you get it done or how you get it done. I just want the product. So we’ve got to figure those things out. We also have to look, I think at, you know, what are the goals of the different generations because that’s changed so much in terms of what their career might look like.
 
00:11:51:20 - 00:12:07:21
Jim Morgan
Historically, you know, your career defined who you were like that was your life, and that began to change. And people thought, you know, no, I’m not going to let it define who I am, and I’m not just going to have one career for 30 years, and I am going to move around a little bit. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
 
00:12:08:12 - 00:12:22:19
Jim Morgan
50 years ago, if you lost your job, it was like, oh you’re a failure, what did you do?  Now it’s almost a badge of honor. Like, yeah, no, I quit that job. I wanted to go do a different job and I’m going to switch jobs every couple of years because that’s how I think I’m going to build up more information.
 
00:12:23:03 - 00:12:35:22
Jim Morgan
Whereas my generation was afraid to leave their job because I thought, well, that would be a step backwards. I’m climbing the ladder here. If I step out, I’m going to have to go down a couple of rungs. You look at it more like the more ladders I can be on, the better off that I’m going to be.
 
00:12:36:07 - 00:12:52:20
Jim Morgan
So again, know those are just examples of how different generations are going to look at leadership and say, don’t give me a 12-year plan because I may not be here for 12 years. I want a plan, but I’d like it to be 2 years or 3 years. And then we can we can update it.
 
00:12:53:18 - 00:13:10:12
Jim Morgan
But I’m going to keep moving. I’m going to keep my eyes open, not because I’m disloyal and not because I don’t necessarily like the organization, but it’s just the way that I function my whole life. I don’t stick with things for 30 years. I kind of look at that as being crazy and I look at switching a job every 2 years like you’re the one who’s crazy.
 
00:13:10:12 - 00:13:16:09
Jim Morgan
Well, maybe we both are, or maybe neither one of us. I don’t know. But, you know, people just approach things very differently.
 
00:13:16:14 - 00:13:37:09
Sophie Boler
Yeah. And speaking to my experience, I definitely like to know, like, what’s my plan for the next couple of months? Like, what are my growth opportunities? Can I explore this area? Like, I like to know that I have a variety of different things coming my way, but I also want to make sure those are in place. And someone has a plan for my development basically.
 
00:13:37:14 - 00:13:56:03
Jim Morgan
And that I will say that’s one of the things that we’ve seen with the last two generations, more than anything else, is what’s my career path look like and what’s my learning and development program? So I want to know what is it going to take for me to get to the next level? How are you going to help me get to the next level and what does that next level look like?
 
00:13:56:13 - 00:14:12:11
Jim Morgan
And again, if you tell me that plan is, it’ll be 5 years before you truly understand, I’m going to look at you like, you know, no, it’s not. Either I’m going to figure it out in 2, or I’m not going to be here anymore. And so I think we’ve had to do a lot of adjustments there as well.
 
00:14:12:15 - 00:14:33:14
Sophie Boler
Exactly. But we also want to talk about how generational differences in the workplace can be a good thing. I feel like we’ve talked a lot about the challenges, but I’m sure you have a few stories around this, and what are some of the opportunities and other challenges that you’ve seen when there are multiple generations in the workplace at the same time?
 
00:14:33:21 - 00:14:54:02
Jim Morgan
Yeah, that’s a, and there are a lot of positives to it. Everybody always picks on the stereotypes and things, but I think there are a lot of positives. And one of the things I get to do at MRA is run roundtables and one of them is for CEOs. And I threw basically that topic on the table to say, okay, let’s talk about the emerging leaders and the next generations coming up.
 
00:14:54:10 - 00:15:16:04
Jim Morgan
And it was really fascinating because a couple of the I’d say more progressive companies, the more progressive CEOs that were in the group were talking about everything that your generation and maybe in the one before you brings to the workplace. And I had sort of introduced the discussion saying, you know, when I started working, I brought nothing.
 
00:15:16:04 - 00:15:55:03
Jim Morgan
I don’t mean it like I was an incompetent buffoon, but everybody who came before me could do the things that I could do. Your generations—and I don’t want to stereotype you with the technology—but you’ve learned so many things that you walk into the workplace with more knowledge than a couple of the generations above you. And so the CEOs picked up on that and said, you know, we’ve been spending time trying to figure out what is it that the people under 35 know that we could use to our advantage, and few of them across the list were, you know, the communication skills, your ability to communicate across a multiple platform, whether that’s social media,
 
00:15:55:09 - 00:16:15:17
Jim Morgan
whether that, you know, verbally, whatever it might be that you you’ve got a skill set there. You’ve also got a level of confidence because basically you’ve been on film since you were born, you know, and you’re not uncomfortable sitting in front of a camera. And, you know, I mean, you’re 22 years old and you’re running a podcast and there’s a camera running.
 
00:16:15:17 - 00:16:35:10
Jim Morgan
Yeah. Good for you. You know, but I know a lot of people that are my age are just sitting down with the camera would be enough to freak them out and it would take us 50 takes before we got through the introduction. So you’re comfortable with all those things. You can adapt to new challenges. People can throw you a curveball because your whole life has been sort of a series of curveballs.
 
00:16:36:00 - 00:17:02:01
Jim Morgan
You understand social media better than anyone over the age of 40. And I’ve got lots of stories there that I could tell, but you understand it and you understand how the platform works and you understand how people utilize it and where someone my age might be freaking out because something got posted, you’d understand that that’s going to be buried in about 2 seconds and this is going to be gone and no one’s going to see it again or this is where you stop the conversation.
 
00:17:02:08 - 00:17:26:09
Jim Morgan
Don’t try to entertain someone on social media. You know, it’s not going to be a logical conversation. So all of those things that we’re talking about saying, this is what these folks are bringing. So maybe rather than looking at a 25-year-old saying, oh, we can’t put them out on the road as the face of the organization to say maybe they should be the face of the organization because they understand the technology that comes with presenting.
 
00:17:26:14 - 00:17:46:12
Jim Morgan
They’re comfortable in front of people. They don’t mind having cameras in front of them. So maybe age isn’t the defining factor in what that should be. On the flip side, I would argue, you know, people that are my age are, we do have some experiences and yes, you’ll get some stick in the mud that’ll be like, wow, we tried that and it didn’t work.
 
00:17:46:22 - 00:18:04:21
Jim Morgan
And now we’re trying it differently. But we’ve seen a lot of things. And one of the issues we have right now with a lot of our member companies as emerging leaders in that, I got to watch other people make a whole bunch of screwups because I wasn’t going to be taking over anything till I was 40 or 45.
 
00:18:05:05 - 00:18:25:09
Jim Morgan
Now you’re taking it over at 25, 30, 35. So you’ve got to be prepared to do those things. You’ve got to be ready for those things. So that’s where I think, you know, maybe some of the baby boomers may be able to help you with experiences that you haven’t had the opportunity to see yet. So every generation brings its strengths and weaknesses.
 
00:18:25:09 - 00:18:41:22
Jim Morgan
And again, I think it’s, you know, who can do this and who can do that. And again, you can’t stereotype 80 million people, but there are tendencies within groups. And I think I can pretty safely say that, you know a lot more about technology than I do because you’ve just had to do it for 25 years.
 
00:18:42:01 - 00:18:44:19
Sophie Boler
But, you know, a lot of things that I don’t know.
 
00:18:44:23 - 00:18:59:02
Jim Morgan
Yeah, I’ve got to figure out which ones are valuable so I can share them with you. But so yeah, there’s a everybody brings something to the table. I think it’s a matter of finding that out, whether it’s by their, their just their personality type, it’s by their generational experience or what it might be.
 
00:18:59:13 - 00:19:15:23
Sophie Boler
And I think we can definitely learn from each other too, based on other generations’ strengths. But do you have any departing words of wisdom for for listeners today or employers for what we like to call the now and the experienced worker?
 
00:19:16:16 - 00:19:22:06
Jim Morgan
That whole question sounds like, all right, old person, can you tell me what it is you’ve got to offer to the young people here?
 
00:19:22:08 - 00:19:22:23
Sophie Boler
I didn’t mean it like that.
 
00:19:24:16 - 00:19:47:06
Jim Morgan
You know, I think as much as we get into these generational differences and I think that they matter because they matter if your generation wants to text their boss, that matters. Because if that’s your preferred method of communication, I’m not saying it’s going to be right or wrong, but you and your boss have to both understand, is that the way we’re going to do it or not? Because someone’s going to have to make an adjustment.
 
00:19:47:16 - 00:20:06:15
Jim Morgan
And people have to understand that while you might work differently, it doesn’t mean you’re not working as hard. And so, again, a lot of people who look like me will be, well if you’re not in the office, I don’t know what you’re doing. I can make it pretty good argument that I’ve seen people in the office and I’m not sure what they’re doing, so I’m not sure that that’s the measure.
 
00:20:07:00 - 00:20:27:17
Jim Morgan
But it’s more are we clear on what the goals and objectives are? Because whether you get it done on the road, at your apartment, in your house or wherever you might be, it doesn’t really matter so much. Now, if there’s a customer portion of it where you’ve got to be somewhere—completely understood. But that pandemic changed everybody’s paradigm.
 
00:20:27:17 - 00:20:52:04
Jim Morgan
And so it was, you know, we had companies who, for years were trying to go remote and couldn’t do it. All of a sudden they did it in 2 weeks because they had to. So all of those things are starting to change. So we’re all different. We’ve all had different experiences. I think it’s really the employer’s job to figure out what motivates whatever the person might be, how do we engage them in the organization?
 
00:20:52:04 - 00:21:14:08
Jim Morgan
Because if they’re engaged and they’re motivated, they’re going to do more for us. And one size does not fit all across generations or within generations. And that becomes a big headache for employers because it’s a lot easier to say “Everybody comes in at 8 and leaves at 5. That’s the rule. We’re done.” But if half the people are unmotivated by that rule, then you’re not getting the most that you can out of.
 
00:21:14:08 - 00:21:33:12
Jim Morgan
So now we’ve got to figure out how do we set up policies and procedures that let people do things the way that that they need to do it. So I guess I would just say that it really is a matter of being intentional with people. It’s trying to figure out what does Sophie need and how is that different than what Jim needs and how can we all sort of live in harmony here?
 
00:21:33:21 - 00:21:57:10
Jim Morgan
Even if you’re never here and I am here or I’m never here in your area, you are here that we both understand that we’re getting our stuff done. We’re just doing it in a very different way. But the company benefits if we’re doing it in the way that we can do it the best. So it’s hard. It’s not simple rules anymore, but I think if we’re for taking the individual into consideration, that’s sort of where you have success.
 
00:21:57:20 - 00:22:18:19
Sophie Boler
I was going to say it seems like a very individualized process.But that takes up just about the time we have for today. So thank you for joining us today and continuing that conversation. And it looks like we can learn a lot from each other on how to really close the generational differences gap. So we have added Jim’s LinkedIn profile.
 
00:22:18:19 - 00:22:38:23
Sophie Boler
You’ve probably seen it a couple of times by now in the show notes, but if you haven’t yet, make sure to connect with him and if you have any questions on today’s episode or really just want to chat with Jim and follow up on his expertise. I’m sure he’d love to have a conversation with you.
 
00:22:38:23 - 00:22:41:06
Sophie Boler
But otherwise we will see you our next episode.
And Jim, thank you for joining us again.
 
00:22:41:09 - 00:22:45:06
Jim Morgan
My pleasure. It’s always great to be with MRA Nation.
 
Sophie Boler: Always.
 
00:22:45:23 - 00:23:08:05
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 
 

The Great Sansdemic Is Here

Description: If you didn’t know we are in a labor shortage, now you do! In this episode, MRA’s Vice President of Workforce Strategies, Jim Morgan stresses the extent employers must go to to get talent nowadays, and that you’ve got to start finding people before they’re even looking. Employees, not employers, are the ones calling the shots.
Key Takeaways:
Welcome to the “Great Sansdemic”. Sans means “without” and demic means “people.” So, this really is “without people”.
Shortages in the workforce in the past have been caused by more economical factors; We didn’t have the right mix of people. This time around it’s demographic--there’s just not enough people, flat-out.
When you don’t have people and that’s what’s controlling your growth because you can’t add a third shift or you can’t build another plant, you’re going to have to get pretty creative in what it is that you’re going to do.
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
INTRO | 00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:23:13 - 00:00:55:08
Hello, everybody. I’m All over the Midwest, employers and human resource professionals are really grappling with attracting, developing, and retaining talent. And Jim has been working on that issue for 30 years. He helps employers understand the demographics that are driving their troubles and provides solutions for talent acquisitions based on best practices.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:55:18 - 00:00:58:18
So thanks for joining me today on the show, Jim. I’m excited to talk to you.
Jim Morgan | 00:00:59:01 - 00:01:01:17
It’s my pleasure to be back with the MRA Nation.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:01:19 - 00:01:08:04
Oh, of course. But as we dive in, is this really something new? What is this problem?
Jim Morgan | 00:01:08:11 - 00:01:30:02
It is different because I think people who have been around for a while have seen shortages in the workforce before. They’ve had a difficult time hiring people. But I would argue in the past those have been more economically challenging times. We didn’t have the right mix of people. This time around it’s demographic, and by that I mean there’s just not enough people, flat-out.
Jim Morgan | 00:01:30:02 - 00:01:47:21
And as we go through the next 20 minutes or so, I’ll sort of lay out what happened there. But this one is different. And I think employers maybe didn’t see it coming or they knew it was coming, but didn’t really think about what the ramifications of it would be. And now it’s here and they’re pretty severe.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:48:10 - 00:01:51:04
And what caused this situation?
Jim Morgan | 00:01:51:20 - 00:02:16:11
There’s a lot of things at play and the upper Midwest is different. Most of our members are in Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa. The upper Midwest is actually a lot like the Northeast, and we’re the ones that have a lot of things working against us. First of all, we’re aging out relatively quickly, meaning we’ve got a lot of old people in our four states and they’re sticking around.
Jim Morgan | 00:02:16:11 - 00:02:37:19
And just as one example, in Wisconsin between 2010 and 2040, so that’s just a 30-year period, we’re going to more than double the amount of people over the age of 65, going from about a little over a million to over 2 million. And you think, okay, well, is that a big deal? Well, yeah, that’s a big deal because that’s a lot of people to take care of.
Jim Morgan | 00:02:38:11 - 00:02:59:08
That’s a lot of health care. We have to figure out a lot of things and those are a lot of people on fixed income. So those folks are pretty much out of the out of the workforce now. We have decreasing fertility rates. And, you know, not to get personal with everybody, but quite frankly, you need about 2.1 children for every female in order just to hang even.
Jim Morgan | 00:02:59:17 - 00:03:19:03
And the United States hasn’t hit that number in 49 of the last 50 years. So basically we’ve got more people dying than we do kids being born. And so as a result, we’re losing there. So now we’re getting older, we’re not having enough children. Then you look at, okay, well what about migration? Where can we get people from?
Jim Morgan | 00:03:19:12 - 00:03:46:19
And we have a little bit of international migration, but not nearly enough. And domestic migration really is winners and losers, that people are moving out of the Midwest and to the Southwest or to the Southeast. And we’re not winning in that battle either. Then you look at, okay, well, what’s causing some of that? And this is all a very long answer to your question, but it’s really trying to help people understand what just happened.
Jim Morgan | 00:03:46:19 - 00:04:19:01
So if you look at the upper Midwest, this is not a destination for people. You know, kids in South Carolina or Texas aren’t thinking, “Boy, I want to move to Minnesota, I want to move to Wisconsin,” because their perception of that is, one, it snows 11 months out of the year. You know, it’s somewhere near Canada. And I joke about Wisconsin because every single time that there’s a football game in January, some guy who weighs 400 pounds takes his shirt off, puts a cheese wedge on his head and, you know, people look at that and say, “Yeah, that’s where I want to go.”
Jim Morgan | 00:04:19:12 - 00:04:44:18
So we’ve got all of these things working against us. And then lastly, there’s a diversity question because the upper Midwest is not a real diverse area. You know, Wisconsin is close to 80-some percent Caucasian. It’s similar in Minnesota. It’s even more so in Iowa. And one of the maps I have when I’m doing this presentation is to say, in what year did that state match the United States in terms of diversity?
Jim Morgan | 00:04:45:02 - 00:05:09:01
What does that mean? Well, Wisconsin looks like the U.S. did in 1974. Iowa looks like the U.S. in 1930. So if I’m a person of color and I’m trying to decide where I want to go, I’m not real sure that going to 1930 would probably be my destination. So all of these things are in play in a way that they’ve never really been before, and that’s what gets us to okay, what caused it?
Jim Morgan | 00:05:09:10 - 00:05:18:15
We have about six or seven things working against us, especially in the upper Midwest and the Northeast. And so that’s what’s gotten us into what we’ve got right now.
Sophie Boler | 00:05:19:09 - 00:05:31:19
And I know when you give these presentations, you usually have slides that come with maps and it’s easier to look at visually. But can you try to describe what the movement in the U.S. looks like?
Jim Morgan | 00:05:32:02 - 00:05:50:03
Okay, I’ll try to do this one simpler because I don’t have pictures. And that’s a good point because like I said, when you can see six or seven maps and say, “Okay, wow, this is all coming together, I see what’s happening,” the migration is actually a little bit easier. You could basically take an arrow in Maine and draw it down to the lower part of California.
Jim Morgan | 00:05:50:03 – 00:06:13:17
That’s basically the movement, that people are leaving the Northeast in the north and they’re moving to the South and the Southwest. And that’s sort of that’s the migration pattern. And then you also have the immigration issue that you’ve got more people coming in from the South. Obviously, if we had a great invasion from Canada, that would certainly help us in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Jim Morgan | 00:06:13:17 - 00:06:38:22
But that’s not happening right now. And one of the things that we still haven’t figured out in the United States is a common-sense immigration policy that says, we need people so how do we figure out a logical way to bring them in? And I’m not sure we’re going to figure that out in my lifetime, but we’re going to have to pretty soon because we’re just not going to have the folks so it’s really a, it’s basically a Northeast, the Southwest with a little bit of band on either side of that arrow.
Sophie Boler | 00:06:39:13 - 00:06:43:11
So when you say that, who is really winning and who’s losing?
Jim Morgan | 00:06:43:11 - 00:07:04:21
The big winners right now are Texas. They were net about plus 310,000 in 2021, and that’s you know, they’ve got Austin and they’ve got Dallas and they’ve got Houston. And those are popular places, especially for younger folks. And if you want to know where a 25-year-old wants to go, it’s where the other 25-year-olds are.
Jim Morgan | 00:07:05:05 - 00:07:34:14
And so Texas has picked up big there. Florida has had a lot of growth. And so they’ve also picked up. Now some of that is a little bit older. But there a net 200,000 people up, and Arizona and North Carolina are both about 100,000 people. Arizona is becoming very popular. Year-round weather, yeah it gets hot, but people seem to tolerate hot a lot better than cold. And North Carolina is kind of becoming a cool place for people to be.
Jim Morgan | 00:07:34:14 - 00:07:59:20
It’s got a good climate, it’s got a lot of universities, there’s a lot of energy around it. So they’re pretty popular as well. Georgia, South Carolina, Utah are a couple of others. The big losers in the game are New York, which is down about 320,000 people. I think a lot of that has to do with New York City perhaps itself and crime and people wanting out and it’s an expensive place to live.
Jim Morgan | 00:08:00:16 - 00:08:26:06
California is No. 2, losing about 260,000. Same thing there. It’s a very expensive place to live. And I think the pandemic for a lot of people gave folks in New York and California some flexibility to say, “I can still do this job and maybe even keep this level of pay, but I can move someplace else.” And especially with California, you can see the growth in the states that are around it,
Jim Morgan | 00:08:26:06 - 00:08:49:09
and that was a little bit of a migration out. And then in third place is Illinois, losing about 100,000 people. And I think Illinois just has a lot of it, has a lot of policy problems. It has a lot of fiscal problems. Chicago is getting its share of bad news. So the bigger cities in those three states I think of have been a result of them losing some people.
Jim Morgan | 00:08:49:09 - 00:09:04:00
But again, the movement of the younger folks, they’re willing to go anywhere. And with a pandemic, I can work from anywhere. So I’m probably looking for what’s a low tax state, what’s a good climate, what’s a fun place to be? And those are the type of places that people are going to.
Sophie Boler | 00:09:04:04 - 00:09:13:05
Absolutely. And we’re calling this “the Great Sansdemic,” which sounds like it would last for a long time. But how long do you think it’s going to last?
Jim Morgan | 00:09:13:09 - 00:09:33:12
Yeah, a good altar boy had to learn Latin. So sans demic, for those who didn’t have the pleasure of learning Latin, sans means “without” and demic means “people.” So this really is “without people.” And I think the problem that we’re seeing with employers, again, especially in the upper Midwest, is they think, “Well, if I just duck and cover, this thing will go away.”
Jim Morgan | 00:09:33:21 - 00:09:52:22
And in the presentation that I make, one of the maps that I’ve got, or the graphs, is really it’s from the United Nations. And they did 60 different samples and they tried to predict out, all right, what what does it look like? And so they looked at the working age population, which is 15- to 64-year-olds, the folks that are doing the work.
Jim Morgan | 00:09:53:10 - 00:10:19:09
And that peaked in about 2007 with about 66 percent of the population. So two-thirds of the population was in that working age number. And for the next about 50 to 60 years, that number just goes down. And out of 60 samples, they all go down and they took it all the way out through 2090 and it drops down to about 58 percent.
Jim Morgan | 00:10:19:09 - 00:10:42:08
And you might say, all right, well, 66 to 58, that’s no big deal. But each percentage point is about 2 million working-aged people. So you’re talking about losing, you know, in 8 years, 16 million possible workers. And this is at a time where we’re starting from a shortage. So this one isn’t going away. And then people start to say, well, how in the world can you predict out to 2090?
Jim Morgan | 00:10:42:17 - 00:11:12:04
And, you know, I’d say part of it is just looking at your generation and the decisions that you make. People aren’t getting married until they’re 30, 32, 34 years old. So they’re not having five kids. They’re having two kids. And those who aren’t having kids are having dogs, you know, and that’s all going to sort of take effect here, that if we go from averaging three or four kids  a family to two kids a family or no kids a family, they can look at those trends and say, you know, this is going to be with us for a while.
Jim Morgan | 00:11:12:12 - 00:11:18:16
So this is not a duck and cover for people. This is really going to be we’re in it for the long run. We got to figure out some different things to do.
Sophie Boler | 00:11:19:06 - 00:11:30:07
And as people take everything you’ve said into consideration and kind of process it and think about what they can start doing, I think the big question is what can employers start doing?
Jim Morgan | 00:11:30:19 - 00:11:50:06
Yeah, and this is admittedly where it gets pretty tough. One, you can become the employer of choice in your own area. And what do I mean by that? You’re the place that people want to go work, whether that’s because of your culture or your pay or your benefits. But you know, especially in a smaller town, there’s usually this is where you want to get to,
Jim Morgan | 00:11:50:06 - 00:12:09:10
this is where you want to work. The problem with that is that’s a net sum game that if people are moving from company A to company B, that means company A now doesn’t have enough people and pretty soon there’s nowhere left to grab from. So, you know, one is it doesn’t solve the bigger problem by you just saying, “I’m going to be the place that people want to work.”
Jim Morgan | 00:12:09:20 - 00:12:27:12
After that, you really have, you know, three choices. One, you’re seeing a lot more automation. You’re seeing, you know, maybe machines that can do the work of three or four people. And at one point that was looked at as a bad thing, like, oh, you’re taking away jobs. That’s not even the case anymore because there’s no one to fill the job.
Jim Morgan | 00:12:28:04 - 00:12:47:18
And now you need a higher-level employee to work with that technology. So you can you can automate. I think we’ve seen companies get smarter. They’ve figured out how do we work more efficiently with the people that we’ve got, whether that’s just looking at lean processes or quality control, how do we just get better at what we do?
Jim Morgan | 00:12:48:07 - 00:13:05:13
Or the third one is you simply go to where the people are, and that could either be within the United States or someplace else. And I think this is where people have to figure out if we don’t figure out a way to get more people into the United States, folks are going to have to go someplace else. So those are tough decisions for employers.
Jim Morgan | 00:13:06:02 - 00:13:18:20
But really, you know, when you don’t have people and that’s what’s controlling your growth because you can’t add a third shift or you can’t build another plant, you’re going to have to get pretty creative in what it is that you’re going to do.
Sophie Boler | 00:13:18:21 - 00:13:30:06
And I think you’ve wrapped up a pretty big problem in a short amount of time, which is impressive. But do you have any last thoughts or pieces of advice you can give to our listeners today?
Jim Morgan | 00:13:30:14 - 00:13:57:18
You know, I usually leave folks when I do have the slides and it’s even more impressive. Yeah, but you know, to say there are short-term and long-term things that people can start doing right now., You know, short term, they get all of their employees helping them look for folks. They’re paying spot bonuses. They’re trying to become that employer of choice, they’re trying to do all those things that, I got to grab all of the people that I can possibly get. The longer term one
Jim Morgan | 00:13:58:00 - 00:14:23:06
and I think the companies that are doing quite well right now are the ones who figured this out early and said, we’re going to start having internships, we’re going to start doing co-op programs, we’re going to start doing youth apprenticeships. And I know you and Courtney talked a little bit about the internship program. That’s part of what folks are doing now, that the sooner that I can get my hands on someone before everybody else sees them, then I’ve got a better chance of hanging on to them.
Jim Morgan | 00:14:23:06 - 00:14:44:19
And so the long-term strategy is get into the high schools, get into even the middle schools to explain what some careers are. And certainly the technical colleges, the community colleges, the universities. Using you as an example: I mean, you come here, you do an internship before your senior year. You like us, we like you. We figure out how to take care of you in the next 9 months,
Jim Morgan | 00:14:44:21 - 00:14:59:16
stay in touch with you. And if you’re going into your senior year and you already know, “Hey, I’ve got a job,” that takes a lot of pressure off your senior year. It prevents you from looking other places. And then we end up with a really good employee because we have the chance to see you work for 3 months and bring you back.
Jim Morgan | 00:14:59:23 - 00:15:13:17
So I think that’s what a lot of employers now are trying to figure out: What’s the long game? How do I get in there? Because I’ve got to have that steady talent supply chain working for me as I as I go forward. So I think that’s the biggest strategy is you got to be the first one to the people.
Sophie Boler | 00:15:14:06 - 00:15:27:18
And then to your point for me, knowing that I had a job before senior year and then I could kind of tell my friends like, “Hey, I already have a full-time role,” like that, and that makes them kind of interested. And you know, the process just goes on and on.
Jim Morgan | 00:15:28:08 - 00:15:43:17
Yeah, and it makes a difference. And you can see the companies that are doing a lot of that, you know, where if they have 30 or 35 or 40 interns and all those people are going back, you know, those are usually companies that have 50, 75, 100 openings. So they’re like, “Oh, you know, and hey, here’s the person that you talked to.
Jim Morgan | 00:15:43:17 - 00:15:53:08
Tell them, you know me, I worked there this summer.” Those are all ways for employers to just sort of get the word out there for free and let younger people know about what they’ve got to offer.
Sophie Boler | 00:15:53:18 – 00:16:19:02
Exactly. Well, Jim, thank you so much for joining us today and really making “the Great Sansdemic” apparent to employers and advice on how to help with this issue. But we’ve added Jim’s LinkedIn profile to the show notes below, so make sure to connect with him and send him a message if you’d like to continue this conversation. Otherwise, we’ll be continuing this conversation next episode,
Sophie Boler | 00:16:19:02 - 00:16:24:12
when we dive into generational differences with Jim. So thank you again for joining us.
Jim Morgan | 00:16:24:15 - 00:16:25:03
My pleasure.
Sophie Boler | 00:16:25:09 - 00:16:27:00
And we’ll see you next episode.
Jim Morgan | 00:16:27:01 - 00:16:27:21
All right. I’ll be there.
OUTRO | 00:16:28:18 - 00:16:51:00
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

Train to Win Your Emerging Leaders

Description: This week, we've got an energizing conversation with Kate Walker, Vice President of Learning and Development at MRA, as she shares her expertise on how to train an emerging leader - including mentor programs, leadership styles, team building, assessments, professional development opportunities, retaining talent, and more! 
 
Key Takeaways:
When you promote a new leader, you want to make sure you're over-communicating with them.
Pair up or connect with a mentor and a coach if you can! 
Training and professional development is a great way to retain your employees! 
Let's Connect:
kate.walker@mranet.org 
Kate's LinkedIn Profile 
 
Resources: 
Learning and Development Opportunities 
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
 
INTRO | 00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:00:23:13 - 00:00:52:07
In this podcast series, we’ve been talking a lot about the talent shortage, the demographic changes, and generational differences just in all. And we’ve heard that with one rather large generation, now, in many leadership positions, leaving the workforce at a fast rate, there simply aren’t enough in the next generation to fill those roles. So we’re looking at an even younger generation to fill that leadership gap.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:00:52:20 - 00:01:10:10
So today we’re here with Kate Walker to talk more about how we can really help to train the next level of leaders. And she’s our vice president of Learning & Development here at MRA, so she comes with a lot of knowledge and expertise here today. So I’m excited to talk to you, Kate, and welcome to the show.
 
Kate Walker | 00:01:10:10 - 00:01:10:23
Thank you.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:01:11:01 - 00:01:28:10
Absolutely. We can get started right away. And really, the first question I have for you is that we have companies needing to fill the leadership roles, and sometimes that may mean promoting managers to leadership roles. So what is the best way to help with the rapid development of new leaders?
 
Kate Walker | 00:01:29:02 - 00:01:51:13
That’s a great question, Sophie, and we’re seeing it a lot from our member companies that they have this influx of new talent that’s been promoted quickly and they need support. I think, number one, when you promote a new leader, you want to make sure you’re overcommunicating with them. The worst thing that could happen is for them to be stressed out or have a situation arise that they don’t know the solution and they end up getting frustrated—they leave.
 
Kate Walker | 00:01:51:13 - 00:02:10:18
We don’t want that, right?
 
Sophie Boler
Right. Absolutely.
 
Kate Walker
We want to just make sure that they’re very supported. But, you know, by communicating, I don’t mean you check on them once a week. You might want to make your calendar open to them so that they can access it if they have questions and just make sure that you’re really ready to support them in being effective in that role.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:02:10:18 - 00:02:17:22
Absolutely. I don’t think anyone’s ever complained that they’ve been talked to too much. It’s always like I haven’t heard enough.
 
Kate Walker | 00:02:17:22 - 00:02:24:01
Right. And if you don’t have the capacity yourself, you want to make sure that you have somebody here for them.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:02:24:01 - 00:02:32:09
Absolutely. And what are some of the core business and leadership skills that you think emerging leaders need to have nowadays?
 
Kate Walker | 00:02:32:18 - 00:02:54:15
Yeah, this comes up quite often, Sophie. And I would say it doesn’t really matter what industry you’re in—if you have problem-solving skills and the ability to show up on time, have a friendly attitude and disposition, you can go really far in this world. And it sounds simple, but problem solving can also be how do you make sure that the coffee’s ready when we open up in the morning?
 
Kate Walker | 00:02:54:15 - 00:03:16:12
Right. And you’ll see that people that just have that intuition and ability to think through those problems, known or unknown, those are just such great skills to have. And if that’s something that doesn’t come natural to you, look for different ways to develop those skills. You know, if you’re a sudoku fan and, you know, do some puzzles that get your mind kind of thinking about problem solving can be a real asset for you in the work world.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:03:16:20 - 00:03:39:03
Absolutely. I think one of the skills or characteristics that I really admire, like an emerging leader, is just being driven too and just like saying “yes” to everything because at that point in time, maybe they don’t know what exactly they want to do. So it’s like just saying “yes” to every opportunity and maybe it’ll lead them down the right path eventually.
 
Kate Walker | 00:03:39:06 - 00:04:03:02
That positive attitude is so valuable, and when you see someone kind of dig their heels in and you know, you might hear, “That’s not in my job description” or “That’s not my responsibility,” you just kind of go, Whoa, that, that doesn’t set them up for future leadership. And you’ve probably seen that already in your career, right, Sophie, people that do that? They kind of stand out and you know who they are and oftentimes are the ones that get passed over for promotion opportunities.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:04:04:13 - 00:04:26:13
Right. And you mentioned just other ways on expanding the skills. And I know for me personally, we have a lot of resources here at MRA to expand those skills like our training and development classes. But also just like LinkedIn Learning, this is so easy just to do a 30-minute video to expand your skills and leadership.
 
Kate Walker | 00:04:26:15 - 00:04:27:14
That’s a great idea.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:04:28:14 - 00:04:35:11
But moving on, how can an emerging leader really better understand their own leadership style?
 
Kate Walker | 00:04:36:14 - 00:04:40:12
That’s a great question, I think … Are you familiar with assessments, Sophie?
 
Sophie Boler | 00:04:40:12 - 00:04:42:18
I am. I’ve taken a few.
 
Kate Walker | 00:04:43:06 - 00:05:05:17
And we offer them here at MRA. And there are plenty other vendors that offer them as well. But some of the most common assessments you’ll see are DiSC, which is really a behavioral assessment. There’s Myers-Briggs, which is somewhat similar. They’re all kind of based on the same science. And then there’s also StrengthsFinder. I just think these are great tools to really understand your personal leadership style.
 
Kate Walker | 00:05:05:17 - 00:05:23:15
Like you can see, Am I a D or am I an I or an S? But it also helps you relate to your own leaders and peers because you can kind of figure out where do they fall? And in some organizations you have the opportunity to take those assessments as a team.
 
Sophie Boler
Yes.
 
Kate Walker
And kind of learn how to communicate within that structure.
 
Kate Walker | 00:05:23:15 - 00:05:28:17
And it’s just super valuable to understand and it’s kind of fun too. I’m kind of an assessment nerd.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:05:28:19 - 00:06:02:14
Yes, me too. I was a communications major in college, so assessments and communication styles were like our thing. But I just recently took MRA’s project management class and we had to take a communication assessment there. And it was just like it was fun to see my strengths and weaknesses and how I can improve or how I could talk to someone else who’s a different leadership style and I know I talked to even Sara about like her leadership style and how we differentiate ourselves and stuff like that.
 
Kate Walker | 00:06:02:19 - 00:06:07:07
Did you have any surprises when you took the assessment or was it pretty spot-on for you?
 
Sophie Boler | 00:06:07:07 - 00:06:22:22
It was pretty spot-on. I feel like I could have kind of went between two different leadership styles, but it was just kind of like funny to see how someone could be completely opposite of you. And it’s like, how do we match and how do we blend together then?
 
Kate Walker | 00:06:23:01 - 00:06:32:03
Yeah, it’s so helpful because to understand yourself is great, but then to know what someone else’s inclinations are and how they need to be communicated with can be very helpful.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:06:32:08 - 00:06:32:13
For sure.
 
Kate Walker | 00:06:32:13 - 00:06:34:05
And help you on your leadership journey.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:06:34:05 - 00:06:45:13
Yeah, that’s some great advice, but we know that not every great worker makes a great manager, which is okay. But how would you help to develop those management skills?
 
Kate Walker | 00:06:46:05 - 00:07:10:20
Yes, thinking of that classic salesperson, Michael Scott, as you will—great salesperson from “The Office.” Questionable management skills maybe, right? Fun to watch. So we’ve all probably experienced someone like that in our career. They got promoted because they were really good at that job, so they were a really good individual contributor, but they might not have had the background to be a manager.
 
Kate Walker | 00:07:10:20 - 00:07:29:20
So to get somebody prepared to be a manager, there’s a lot of different resources. We have a lot of different classes that are available and training available here at MRA too. But really they need to know what they need to do to be successful. They need to look at other managers that have been successful in their roles. They need to be paired with a potential mentor or coach.
 
Kate Walker | 00:07:29:20 - 00:07:42:10
Coaching can be a really great way to help somebody learn how to improve their skills and also become more self-aware if they have hiccups or roadblocks to what they’re doing. Are you familiar with coaching?
 
Sophie Boler | 00:07:42:10 - 00:07:44:22
I am. I am a little bit, yeah.
 
Kate Walker | 00:07:44:22 - 00:07:48:06
Yeah. Have you had the opportunity to have a coach yet in your career?
 
Sophie Boler | 00:07:48:06 - 00:08:12:11
I’ve had some mentors, which I would say probably could be recognized as a coach, and I think it’s been really helpful just as an emerging leader and as a younger professional, it’s nice to have someone there who kind of can know your strengths and kind of push you to keep going forward and where I don’t know just what paths to take and stuff like that.
 
Kate Walker | 00:08:12:17 - 00:08:34:19
Yeah, a coach can really provide those services for an individual and you can develop an action plan and work together. So for that manager that might not have that baseline, you know, if they’re struggling with employee communication, that coach can talk to them about it, they can role-play in a safe environment and they can really improve those skills so that when they’re in their real work experience, they can feel comfortable.
 
Kate Walker | 00:08:34:19 - 00:08:40:04
So there’s a lot of great ways to help support that new manager and just hope that they take advantage of it.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:08:40:08 - 00:08:55:17
Absolutely. In going along with what you just said, another consideration is the fact that a manager is really the key to a successful team. So how can you not only develop the manager skills but also team building from a manager standpoint?
 
Kate Walker | 00:08:56:09 - 00:09:18:11
Yeah, I think team building is one of those skill sets that you have to be very intentional about. And if you just think, “Oh, we’re going to do something quarterly and it’s going to be a potluck lunch, we’re going to be good and have relationships here”—it’s not really like that anymore. And particularly with hybrid and remote work environments, you have to be even more intentional about creating a team environment.
 
Kate Walker | 00:09:20:03 - 00:09:37:19
One thing I can say for our Learning & Development team, every team meeting we have, we incorporate some team-building activities and we do meet as a team virtually. And you would think, oh this team that teaches and does all these different things, how do they team build in a virtual environment? We use our chat quite a bit.
 
Kate Walker | 00:09:38:21 - 00:09:50:17
There are a lot of different activities that we can facilitate. It’s really fun and you get to know your team better and you feel closer to them and just those relationships flourish. Have you experienced any good team building?
 
Sophie Boler | 00:09:50:20 - 00:10:10:18
I have. It’s funny that you mention that because right before we were recording this, I was talking with Sara, our producer, and I was like, “We should do something after work today. Like we could go get dinner or a happy hour or something.” Just to … I mean, it was her 8-year anniversary and I was like, let’s just go do something to celebrate, something as a team.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:10:10:18 - 00:10:16:14
And we’re actually going out to lunch today as a team too.
 
Kate Walker
Oh, that’s good.
 
Sophie Boler
Just fun, fun team building.
 
Kate Walker | 00:10:16:15 - 00:10:36:20
Yeah. I feel like that stuff is so important and I’ve heard some really great practices around hybrid and virtual. Some companies I am familiar with that are completely virtual. They actually signed on to Zoom together as a team during the day and like work together. So if somebody has questions, they can just pop on and ask and they feel more connected that way.
 
Kate Walker | 00:10:36:20 - 00:10:52:01
So that’s something I’ve seen. Another activity hybrid organizations and remote organizations have been doing is have a team member kind of share like a passion or a hobby virtually, which is kind of neat. They can do that and get to know their team members better.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:10:52:01 - 00:11:08:04
Yeah, absolutely. We at MRA have our Intern Leadership Program and that’s kind of mostly virtual, but kind of a hybrid format, too. But we had to do a lot of team-building activities virtually, which may seem harder, but there’s so many options you can do.
 
Kate Walker | 00:11:08:04 - 00:11:08:21
And oh yeah.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:11:09:02 - 00:11:19:09
We did a Jeopardy one time online and it was just fun to, I don’t know, just see everybody and we could all play at the same time. So there’s definitely a lot of options.
 
Kate Walker | 00:11:19:12 - 00:11:35:07
Yeah. One thing for our Learning & Development team for our holiday party last year we had a virtual holiday party and everybody had to go and find a crazy Christmas ornament within their house.
 
Sophie Boler
Oh, that’s funny.
 
Kate Walker
And then show it. We had a contest, so that was really fun.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:11:35:07 - 00:11:36:15
That’s fun. There’s so many things.
 
Kate Walker | 00:11:36:15 - 00:11:45:17
Yeah, there’s so many. And I think like the virtual environment kind of opens you up too, because you kind of get to see people in their own space, which is interesting, as we all know.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:11:46:03 - 00:12:00:16
Well, we hear that professional development also contributes to employee retention. So let’s talk a bit more about that. What can you share to encourage organizations to consider learning plans and professional development to encourage retention?
 
Kate Walker | 00:12:01:17 - 00:12:22:10
I get very passionate about this topic, Sophie, because I think, you know, a lot of employers have known that training and professional development is a great way to retain people and develop them. They kind of had their noses down and focused on a lot of different things. And I think just the talent environment the last several years have made it front and center.
 
Kate Walker | 00:12:23:07 - 00:12:34:22
We’ve definitely seen an uptick in training requests and it’s just it’s such a good practice to work with your employees. It’s so much easier to keep and retain somebody that’s already within your organization than to bring someone new.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:12:35:03 - 00:12:35:20
Absolutely.
 
Katie Walker | 00:12:35:20 - 00:12:59:03
Into the world, so just very passionate about it. And I think there’s so many great ways to train them, whether you do in-house training, whether you use LinkedIn Learning, whether you use MRA to train your employees, whether you have mentor programs, community leadership programs. A lot of our communities have leadership programs that, you know, get your organization’s name out there, but get your employees familiar with the community.
 
Kate Walker | 00:12:59:03 – 00:13:22:22
So that’s another facet. You can get them ingrained within your organization, but also help them establish groups with where they live.
 
Sophie Boler
Absolutely.
 
Kate Walker
Great ways to retain people and, you know, just take advantage of it. You know, the cost can be a little jarring sometimes when you’re looking at budgets and it’s budget cycle, but really that retention and you know, it pays itself forward over time because you have people that are very committed to your organization.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:13:23:08 - 00:13:47:02
And I think today especially, we’ve seen employers get very creative on how they are retaining their employees. I know we talked with Kathy Seidel, our manager of Recruiting Services, and she just explained how companies are offering a lot of incentives to get these people to stay, like pet insurance and stuff like that.
 
Kate Walker | 00:13:47:21 - 00:14:05:18
I think and sometimes employers think, are they looking to go back to school or is it a different baccalaureate program or a master’s program? It’s not always that. It’s professional development. They might want to go take an Excel class and become better at Excel, and that can have immediate impact to the work environment as well.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:14:06:02 - 00:14:15:15
Totally. Well, taking a little step back here, who would you say are the best candidates to consider for professional development? And this can really be anyone.
 
Kate Walker | 00:14:16:05 - 00:14:40:17
I think that’s a great question, Sophie. And I think people tend to focus on leaders, you know, getting them more skills. But that new employee who’s eager to learn more and might put their hand up, I think them putting their hand up is just great, a reason that you’d want to invest in them. But sometimes you’re surprised that you’re more seasoned employees could benefit from professional development or want to take it.
 
Kate Walker | 00:14:40:17 - 00:14:57:06
We had a situation on our team where someone had been with us a very long time, had asked about a certification, and I was just so excited about that because I thought she’s been in her role for a long time. This is really stretching herself. And the fact that she asked, I just thought that was super exciting.
 
Kate Walker | 00:14:57:06 - 00:15:08:03
So, it’s great—you want to see your new leaders and your new employees take advantage of professional development, but sometimes you’ll have some surprises along the way and you don’t want to ignore those requests either or opportunities.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:15:08:04 - 00:15:20:10
Yeah, and it’s nice to just encourage your employees, like take any opportunity you can when it comes to professional development. And you know it’s not going to hurt you, it’s only going to better you, you know?
 
Kate Walker | 00:15:20:18 - 00:15:33:15
That’s the right attitude to have when it comes to it, you know, I think if you have that attitude about lifelong learning and professional development, that will only help you and you’ll be seen as somebody that should be invested in within your organization.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:15:34:08 - 00:15:49:18
Well, you talked about this a little bit earlier, but there’s been a lot of talk about mentoring and coaching emerging leaders. And I know I mentioned that I had a couple of mentors here, but how does coaching differ from mentoring and how does that differ from training?
 
Kate Walker | 00:15:50:08 - 00:16:13:13
Yeah, mentoring I think can fall into different buckets. It can be informal. So you might have somebody who mentors you, gives you advice, and it’s not like a formal relationship, but organizations can assign a mentor. So if you’re new and part of your onboarding, you might have somebody assigned your mentor just to be a safe person, ask questions and just to learn a little bit more about the culture.
 
Kate Walker | 00:16:13:16 - 00:16:36:10
So those are two ways mentoring kind of is facilitated. Coaching is a little bit different because it’s typically a three-pronged approach. There’s typically a sponsor for the coaching process, be it the manager or direct supervisor; a coachee, you know, somebody who’s going to benefit from the coaching; and then also the coach themselves. So that’s kind of how that’s structured.
 
Kate Walker | 00:16:36:10 - 00:17:06:10
And the sponsor usually has some reason for wanting the coaching. Could it be performance, help that person be a little more effective with what they’re doing, but also could be developmental or it could be a response to a situation that happens, so you want to make sure that they’re equipped to handle situations in the future. So most times you would follow that structure and they would establish kind of guidelines and goals and objectives for the coaching arrangement, and it can go anywhere from 6 months to a year.
 
Kate Walker | 00:17:06:21 - 00:17:29:01
You know, they meet those milestones across that timeline and stay in contact and the coachee and the coach will have confidential conversations, which really can help them feel comfortable with the direction of what they’re talking about. And then, you know, usually they would the coach would go back to the manager or supervisor to see, are you seeing changes here?
 
Kate Walker | 00:17:29:01 - 00:17:47:06
You know, have you noticed anything? Sort of kind of reiterate the feedback that’s going on to help them be supported and be effective in their role. It’s a really neat process. If you ever have the opportunity to be coached, I would always say go for it. That will only help you develop and further your skill set. Sometimes it can be a little scary.
 
Kate Walker | 00:17:47:06 - 00:18:05:22
“Oh, my manager wants me to have a coach.” I think it’s great. I’ve had a couple opportunities to have coaches throughout my career and I’ve found that they would ask questions that my boss would not have asked me at that time. They would challenge me in ways that I wouldn’t challenge myself, and I just got a lot of great insight from that third party.
 
Kate Walker | 00:18:05:22 - 00:18:09:07
I think third-party perspective can be really valuable.
 
Kate Walker | 00:18:10:18 - 00:18:15:10
So don’t be afraid, Sophie, if  someone ever offers you coaching. I highly encourage you to take it.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:18:15:23 - 00:18:24:12
I will. Do you recommend that an emerging leader would have a coach and a mentor at the same time? Or what are your thoughts on that?
 
Kate Walker | 00:18:24:21 - 00:18:40:06
If they could, that would be great. It’d be even more feedback. It could be time consuming would be my only hesitation there. But yeah, definitely. And depending on the relationship of the mentor, if it’s a little more informal, they definitely would have time for that.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:18:40:17 - 00:18:51:12
For sure. So what are your thoughts on reverse mentoring? I know we talked about just regular mentoring, but we often see that with emerging leaders, there’s reverse mentoring. So what can you say about that?
 
Kate Walker | 00:18:51:21 - 00:19:16:16
I’m so glad you asked this question because I don’t think many people understand the concept. For me, I’ve actually had a couple throughout my career. I went to a convention and they were talking about this and like that is really interesting. And really what it is, is taking two individuals with different backgrounds and experiences and typically one is maybe a little more senior in their development.
 
Kate Walker | 00:19:16:16 - 00:19:39:01
And then one is maybe newly out of college or new to the workforce. That’s how it worked for me. I had a younger gentleman that I worked with that was right out of college, very insightful, had a lot of technology background, a lot of sales background, and just had a really fresh perspective. And I found it really interesting to spend time with him and kind of see the world through his eyes.
 
Kate Walker | 00:19:39:01 - 00:20:02:00
So we would get together about two or three times a year and just kind of check in and see what he was seeing in his career and what I was seeing in mine. And I always felt like I walked away with more than he probably even did. It’s really great if you can figure that out and you’re kind of putting yourself out there as well as someone who’s looking for a reverse mentor just to benefit from that perspective—it’s exciting.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:20:02:00 - 00:20:24:03
I definitely think that’s a great concept and it’s usually you hear that you learn from the senior leaders and you don’t often hear that like the senior leaders hear from somebody that’s way younger, maybe there’s not much experience with that person, but feel like you can always take something away from learning from each other.
 
Kate Walker | 00:20:24:03 - 00:20:30:22
Something tells me you’re going to be a mentor for a lot of people in your career, Sophie. So if you’re not doing it already, I’d be surprised.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:20:31:09 - 00:20:43:23
Well thank you, Kate! I would love to be a mentor, but it seems like we’re wrapping up the time here. So do you have any departing tips for emerging leaders or for our listeners today?
 
Kate Walker | 00:20:44:13 - 00:21:04:03
Yeah. One big thing I have for you is to always advocate for yourself as an emerging leader. If you’re not getting what you need from your supervisor, if you’re not getting that level of communication, tell somebody. Make sure that you overcommunicate too what your needs are. You know, I mentioned earlier that managers and leaders should overcommunicate with you, but you should too. Don’t be afraid to speak up.
 
Kate Walker | 00:21:04:04 - 00:21:19:12
Let your manager know your preferred speaking style. Do you prefer to be called? Do you prefer text? I think having some baseline ground rules really help you too. And just, yeah, when in doubt, ask questions, be curious and always be learning.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:21:19:15 - 00:21:49:05
Absolutely. That’s some great advice. I think it was a great conversation today. So thanks for joining us and sharing your knowledge and expertise. I think a lot of people learned a lot today, but we have linked Kate’s LinkedIn profile on the show notes. So if you’d like to connect with her or ask her any follow-up questions about this topic or really any topic or how to get involved in MRA’s learning and development opportunities, be sure to contact Kate.
 
Sophie Boler | 00:21:49:05 - 00:21:57:02
Otherwise, we will see you next week when we’re talking about “The Great Sansdemic” with Jim Morgan. So I look forward to that. But thank you again, Kate.
 
Kate Walker | 00:21:57:06 - 00:21:58:01
Thanks, Sophie. It was fun. I appreciate it.
 
OUTRO | 00:21:58:01 - 00:22:30:03
For sure. Thank you. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 
 

Emerging Leaders: The Future of Work

Description: This week, emerging leader expert, Courtney Lamers, dives into the “takeover” of younger generation leaders and how companies can develop and retain them as key assets in your organization. She talks about intern programs, best practices, opportunities, and resources companies can use for growing their emerging leaders. 
Key Takeaways:
It's really important to understand the employee as a whole and what they truly want, because having those conversations helps you guide them and engage them and retain them and then develop them into that next step leader!
If you're a leader and you have people on your team that can reach a higher potential, definitely think about challenging them.
Make sure managers really know what it takes to have an intern and make sure that they have the time to let those interns be successful.
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
INTRO | 00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:23:13 - 00:00:57:12
Hello, everybody. I’m excited to introduce our guest for today, and that is Courtney Lamers. She’s our strategic project manager and executive director of the Employer Associations of America. She’s worked on just about every project you could think of and with just about everyone as well. So she comes with a lot of expertise in a variety of different areas, and one of them being the development of emerging leaders, or interns, which happens to be our exciting topic for today.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:58:15 - 00:01:06:07
So I know you come with a lot of great information and advice for our listeners. So thanks for being on the show and sharing with us today.
Courtney Lamers | 00:01:06:08 - 00:01:26:06
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the introduction and I’m excited to talk about this with you just because I worked super closely with you during your internship and then now seeing you evolve as a leader just over your last 6 months since you’ve graduated. So perfect topic, really hot one with our employers and then you yourself going through this is perfect, perfect timing.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:26:07 - 00:01:40:17
Absolutely. So I think before we get started, we should kind of take a step back and just discuss who emerging leaders even are and why the topic is so hot right now for organizations to learn about, you know, hear from you.
Courtney Lamers | 00:01:41:00 - 00:02:02:13
Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s a couple of different definitions of emerging leaders. So I would say that’s really someone that has that potential to grow as a leader and take on that next step of leadership responsibilities. More so than ever, we’re really hearing from companies that those emerging leaders are those younger professionals that are high potentials, they’re performing well.
Courtney Lamers | 00:02:02:18 - 00:02:24:19
They have that skill set to take on that next leadership role. Just because of the massive retirements that we’ve seen, leaders are stepping into that leadership role earlier on in their career. So instead of becoming a leader at 55, they’re becoming a leader at 30 and 35. So really those young leaders taking on that additional responsibility is what we’re focused on today.
Courtney Lamers | 00:02:25:01 - 00:02:36:02
Hot topic by employers, something we’ve seen a lot is companies are starting to develop their own internal emerging leaders program. So I know we’ll dive into some of that, but that’s just high level what we’re focused on today.
Sophie Boler | 00:02:36:13 - 00:02:53:07
And one of the resources we have here at MRA are Roundtables. And I know because this topic is so hot right now, we’ve actually added an Emerging Leaders Roundtable, which you work very closely with and lead. So can you tell us more about that new Roundtable?
Courtney Lamers | 00:02:53:12 - 00:03:12:18
Yeah, it was such an energizing roundtable that we had. So we just launched it this fall, and we talked about generational differences. And really it’s just a group of leaders getting together that want to learn from each other. They want to grow in their career. And really, they’re just sharing their experiences and being able to help each other work through it.
Courtney Lamers | 00:03:12:18 - 00:03:27:00
So it’s just something that we’ve heard from companies as they have this younger talent that they want to grow and they want to keep them engaged at their organization. So they’re providing these opportunities for their leaders to really grow and learn from each other.
Sophie Boler | 00:03:27:08 - 00:03:32:15
Oh, that’s awesome. What were some of the topics that you covered last week when you started?
Courtney Lamers | 00:03:32:18 - 00:03:57:12
Yeah, so generational differences was the first one and it was a really great conversation. We covered a lot of different aspects, but one thing that really stood out to me was our feedback conversation. And you know, traditionally, sometimes feedback has come on a quarterly basis or even an annual basis. And we talked about the younger generations really wanting that real-time feedback and they want that feedback literally every single day.
Courtney Lamers | 00:03:57:17 - 00:04:19:19
And I know we talked about some of the older generations in our Roundtable were like, “Well, I don’t want to praise them for just doing their job.” But being that younger generation, we’ve always had, you know, social media at our fingertips and things that just move so quickly and it’s like, I want to know if I’m doing a bad job now and I want to know if I’m doing a good job now and not just am I doing good or bad, but what am I doing specifically that’s good or bad.
Courtney Lamers | 00:04:20:01 - 00:04:45:03
So we had a really interesting conversation around that and then almost around personality types too. So different people, you know, just because you’re younger and you want more feedback quicker and real time, some people want public recognition and some people want private recognition. So at the end of the day, I think it’s really just learning and talking to your people individually and finding out what they want and what works for them.
Sophie Boler | 00:04:45:03 - 00:04:56:23
I can definitely attest to the feedback part of that. I feel like it’s just nice to know like, “Hey, you’re doing a good job, but maybe try this or …” It’s like a constant, constant thing.
Courtney Lamers | 00:04:57:05 - 00:05:14:05
And I know we’ve talked about this because we work on a lot of projects together and you had said like, “Well, your answer is always like, Perfect, thank you.” And I, I took a step back and I was like, I do say that, but it is perfect and I do appreciate it. But then it really made me think like, okay, I should be more specific and tell you what you did right.
Courtney Lamers | 00:05:14:05 - 00:05:30:12
But it’s like we’ve had those conversations and I’m like, okay, I need to remember to tell Sophie what exactly she did well and I remember there was one day you sent me this thing and you were super proactive about it, and I didn’t even ask for it. And I was like, “This is amazing!” I was like, “You saved me before I even, like, knew about it.
Courtney Lamers | 00:05:30:12 - 00:05:43:17
I didn’t even know I needed this, but I did.” And so I think it’s really just having that conversation. Whether you’re the leader leading other people or you’re that person that wants a different type of feedback is having those conversations exactly.
Sophie Boler | 00:05:43:17 - 00:05:55:23
And speaking as a young professional myself and working with a lot of interns, can you talk about any professional development strategies and what it really means for emerging leaders and maybe interns?
Courtney Lamers | 00:05:56:06 - 00:06:31:13
Yeah, definitely. I think at the end of the day, they just want an opportunity to learn and to grow. Especially with the younger generations, we’re hearing that they want opportunities to learn about the organization and the business as a whole and not just their business unit itself. I know, you know, and the interns that we had in our intern leadership program and then even like yourself and our interns at MRA, you know, like you’re in the marketing department and obviously you want to grow as a marketing professional, but you also want to know, you know, what our accounting department is up to and our internal HR,
Courtney Lamers | 00:06:31:13 - 00:06:55:17
and some of our, you know, external-facing services as well. And so I think it’s really getting that holistic approach and understanding the business as a whole. The other thing that we’ve talked about is giving opportunities outside of the traditional learning and training. So it might be great to send someone to training for 8 hours one day once a year, and that’s what you call professional development.
Courtney Lamers | 00:06:55:17 - 00:07:17:08
But I think it’s gone even beyond that of working on some of those stretch projects and observing some of those leaders and sitting in some of those meetings where you might not be the one that’s leading the conversation or being that subject matter expert, but you’re observing some of those high-level conversations. So I think at the end of the day, it’s really just about wanting to learn and grow.
Courtney Lamers | 00:07:17:17 - 00:07:29:08
And again, you know, I think we’ve talked about this already a couple of times, but it’s really talking to those people and finding out like, what do you want and what opportunities do we have? So I encourage people to think creatively about that.
Sophie Boler | 00:07:29:20 - 00:07:50:19
Absolutely. I know as an intern I was given a variety of different projects and even now as a newer employee, I mean, I feel like I work on a variety of different things with a variety of different departments, which is really, really helpful. Like you said, just covering more of a holistic approach, learning about the organization and exploring outside of your department.
Sophie Boler | 00:07:51:07 - 00:07:56:13
So what is one project that you have worked on that’s really helped you grow?
Courtney Lamers | 00:07:57:01 - 00:08:32:13
Yeah, I think for me—and I’m more of a learner that learns by doing—so it’s really those strategic initiatives that I’ve been fortunate enough to lead. I’ll say sometimes different projects came to me more naturally than others, but I would say when we moved into this new building, I led our AV technology transition and I consider myself like semi tech savvy, but not, I’m not the most tech-savvy person, but I learned so much about it from a technical standpoint, but also working with so many different players internally and externally as well.
Courtney Lamers | 00:08:32:13 - 00:09:01:09
So there was a budget responsibility. Obviously, we set a budget at the beginning and then, you know, how do you stay in that? And if you can’t stay in that, then how do you influence people to understand why that’s important and how that helps both your customers and your team internally? So for myself, that was really a challenge and that pushed me, but I really just appreciate having a leader that is in front of the senior team that’s saying, you know, my name and a room full of opportunities that put me in positions that have helped me grow.
Courtney Lamers | 00:09:02:02 - 00:09:20:13
So I would say if you’re a leader and you have people on your team that can reach a higher potential, definitely think about challenging them. Obviously set them up for success. So, you know, if they are working on a stretch project like that and you know, maybe they’ve never done it before, do they have that mentor in that resource that can help guide them and make sure they’re successful, too?
Sophie Boler | 00:09:20:19 - 00:09:36:00
Yeah, I was just going to say, like you mentioned, all these opportunities that you’ve had, but how do you get those opportunities? So I think that’s a good point to have someone kind of like backing you up and volunteering you almost in a way and someone who has a little bit more authority.
Courtney Lamers | 00:09:36:09 - 00:09:56:06
Oh, for sure. I mean, I think part of it is just having that relationship with some of the people that are higher up in the company that are saying like, “Oh, Courtney can do that or Sophie can do that.” The other thing that I always say during our intern program and I still believe in this to this day, is saying yes, because I like that first project I took on,
Courtney Lamers | 00:09:56:06 - 00:10:14:05
I was like, “Yeah, I’ll do that!” and then I was like, “Why did I say, Yeah?” It’s like, “What did I get myself into?” But I think once you say yes and you’re put in a position where you’re being challenged, I think you you discover stuff about yourself and maybe it’s stuff you don’t like, but it is things, or skills that you didn’t necessarily know you had.
Courtney Lamers | 00:10:15:00 - 00:10:19:11
But then once you say yes that first time people are going to keep coming back to you, especially if you do it successfully.
Sophie Boler | 00:10:19:19 - 00:10:40:23
So and you just mentioned our intern leadership program, which is fairly new, but it was something that I participated in last year as an intern and now I kind of help you lead the program, which has been awesome. But I think that program teaches you a lot about interns and it’s taught me a lot working with interns and younger professionals.
Sophie Boler | 00:10:41:11 - 00:10:48:07
So that being said, what would you tell employers or leaders considering interns or that have interns?
Courtney Lamers | 00:10:48:15 - 00:11:16:17
Yeah. Can I describe the intern program a little bit because I’m super, super passionate about it. So our intern leadership program is really meant to help our member companies retain and develop their interns as their next generation of workers. So we really focus on the networking piece for the interns and then the professional development. So focusing on the business and communication and leadership skills, as well as connecting interns with other interns around the country.
Courtney Lamers | 00:11:16:17 - 00:11:41:06
So we had over 100 interns this year and over 70 last year in our first inaugural year. So, you know, almost 200 in 2 years that we’ve had the opportunity to work with. So I have been so impressed with all of the interns and the companies that we work with are the same way. And it’s so fun to talk to the companies that, you know, may not have even had interns at the beginning or like in the past,
Courtney Lamers | 00:11:41:12 - 00:12:05:18
and then they go through the summer and they’re like, “I’m just so impressed with everything that they did.” And so I definitely encourage companies that are, you know, considering interns to go for it. It’s definitely important to think about what your goals are as an organization before you bring the interns on. I would say nowadays most companies are trying to retain those interns, if, you know, obviously if it works out.
Courtney Lamers | 00:12:05:18 - 00:12:24:00
But, you know, there was one company that kept five of their six on and didn’t necessarily even have the intention of keeping them on, but they were so impressed with their skill set that they were like, we have to keep them. And they can, you know, return once they graduate. On the flip side of that is keeping them engaged while they’re back at school and making sure that they come back too.
Courtney Lamers | 00:12:24:00 - 00:12:31:18
But sorry, so going back to your original question for me. What have I missed there? What was your …?
Sophie Boler | 00:12:31:18 - 00:12:39:13
Just like what would you tell employers or readers considering starting an intern program or just having interns. Is there any advice you’d give them?
Courtney Lamers | 00:12:40:01 - 00:13:07:14
Yeah, I mean, I think I covered a lot of it. The other thing that I would say is really, you know, challenge them. Don’t let them, you know, be bored. I think the one thing we’ve heard is that interns and young professionals can do more than they even necessarily expect. The other, the thing that we hear from interns I just want to share with employers is that don’t let them be bored, because I think that’s the No. 1 thing they’re sitting there and they’re like, “Okay, I want more to do.
Courtney Lamers | 00:13:07:14 - 00:13:24:01
But I don’t necessarily, you know, maybe my manager’s in the meeting” or “I don’t, you know, I have said three times I need more work to do.” You know, I know. And like when I was an intern, I’ve had a couple of different internships, but I know like the one thing and one of them specifically, the other  this wasn’t an issue at all.
Courtney Lamers | 00:13:24:01 - 00:13:39:15
But I had one where I was like, “Oh, I wish I had a little bit more work to do.” You know, I think like when you started, we really made sure that you had a lot to do. And I know like we spent a lot of time before you even came on board and we have three pages of work for you to do.
Courtney Lamers | 00:13:40:14 - 00:13:49:23
And you know, I’m sure you can talk to your own experience, but I think it might have been a little overwhelming at first, but it was probably nice that you could fall back on that if you had a little downtime.
Sophie Boler | 00:13:50:00 - 00:14:10:21
Yeah, I think when I got there and I saw the pages and “Here’s a list of everything you can do,” it was a little intimidating. But then just going through the internship and it’s like, “Oh, today I have a lighter load. Like let’s reference back to that sheet, and maybe I’ll work on this today” and then we’re all like very different projects, which is very helpful too.
Sophie Boler | 00:14:10:21 - 00:14:32:09
And I think you touched on this, but interns want meaningful work too, and that’s something that I can attest to. And I think it’s just work that can be shown to senior leaders or can be shown to different companies or something that’s much more than your typical intern work. That’s like a lot of people might think, Oh, they’re there to get coffee.
Sophie Boler | 00:14:32:09 - 00:14:37:18
But it’s like, No, we want to learn to a like we want to take on as much as we can.
Courtney Lamers | 00:14:38:06 - 00:14:59:18
Yeah. And I think what you said about taking that to senior leadership, I know there is a lot of companies that do kind of like a summer wrap-up where they present to their senior leadership or they present to all of the leaders. I know one of the companies that I worked for, we have like in a presentation at the end and everyone in the company was invited to and it was a huge company,
Courtney Lamers | 00:14:59:18 - 00:15:28:16
so there were literally like thousands of people, which as an intern is kind of intimidating, but it was a super cool experience and I think the couple of senior leaders that I’ve talked to, both internally and at companies that have heard these presentations, have learned so much about the interns’ experience. So I think it’s just important to have that big project that they can work on all summer. The other thing I’ll add too is for companies that have more than one intern internally, it’s so important to get them together.
Courtney Lamers | 00:15:28:16 - 00:15:50:20
That’s the other thing I hear. You know, there’s a couple of companies that were part of our intern program and they had, let’s just say, eight interns. And the only time they ever got together was during the intern program. And I know that was some of the feedback we received was we wish we would have gotten to know our, my own colleagues a little bit better beyond just the intern leadership program.
Sophie Boler | 00:15:51:00 - 00:15:57:22
Right. And we discussed that interns want meaningful work and a challenge, but what else do interns want?
Courtney Lamers | 00:15:58:08 - 00:16:25:04
Yeah, you know, I think they just want the opportunity to network with other interns and internally at their own organization. So meeting with other leaders in other business units, having those challenging projects, like I said, you know. Some of the companies have done some really cool projects with their interns. I know one had all of their or had their intern go through all of their standard operating procedures and document them.
Courtney Lamers | 00:16:25:04 - 00:16:40:12
So, one, it was nice for them to have that documented just for cross-training. And if somebody were to leave or whatever it might be. But it also gave that the intern an opportunity to feel like, well, why do you do it this way or not in a rude way, but just kind of like, okay, help me understand why.
Courtney Lamers | 00:16:40:19 - 00:16:58:09
So one, it helped the intern be able to understand why things are done the way they are, but also to make them more efficient. Like the company had said, I’m going to have an intern in every department and they’re going to go through this. And, you know, I think it you know, it’s a great experience for the intern, but it’s also beneficial for the company as well.
Courtney Lamers | 00:16:58:23 - 00:17:21:12
And we had another company that one of their initiatives was they really wanted to increase their diversity, equity, and inclusion at their organization, but they didn’t even really know where to start. And they were a smaller company, but they hired an intern and they just had that intern focus just on their DEI strategy and they put together a huge plan for it and presented to senior leadership,
Courtney Lamers | 00:17:21:12 - 00:17:40:06
and the the senior team accepted the proposal and that intern got hired on full time and is working on that as their full-time role. So super cool projects that companies have done. I encourage people to get creative with it and I also think about like all of those projects that you think about like, “Oh, when I have time, I’m going to do that.”
Courtney Lamers | 00:17:40:06 - 00:17:43:19
I would definitely give those to the interns and see what they can do with it.
Sophie Boler | 00:17:43:21 - 00:17:58:12
Right. And you mentioned about making this just a great experience overall and kind of asking what do you want the interns’ friends to hear? What do you want the interns tell their parents about? So what really makes it a great experience?
Courtney Lamers | 00:17:58:19 - 00:18:19:18
I love that you said think about this as an experience as a whole, because it truly is when they go back to school in the fall or when they’re talking to their family, what are they saying about your organization? So we talked about having that list of small projects that they can work on throughout the summer, but then having that one big project that they can put on their resume.
Courtney Lamers | 00:18:19:18 - 00:18:41:00
I think that’s a huge piece of it. A lot of companies do some fun outings, so it really just takes it outside of the workplace and helps build those relationships. I know some companies have done, you know, Brewers games or, you know, the Twins games up in the Twin Cities. So there’s a lot of different things that you can do to have it be fun.
Courtney Lamers | 00:18:41:04 - 00:19:02:20
I know one company, they did Family Feud and it was the interns against the leadership team and they love that. They were like, “That was the highlight of my summer!” So get creative with that too. I think some of those fun pieces and showcasing leadership to the interns is a huge piece too. Like we talked about, the networking opportunities and then feedback as well.
Courtney Lamers | 00:19:03:00 - 00:19:23:22
I know we talked about this and actually you were with me. We were talking to a company and they were just so impressed with their interns and they were like, “We were so impressed with them. We’ve offered them all jobs. Our CEO really loved them. Like this person was really great at this,” and you know, they got done and you know, you and I are like, “Well, that’s awesome!
Courtney Lamers | 00:19:23:22 - 00:19:41:21
Like, do they know that?” And they were like, “No, I guess we never told them.” And so I think that’s something we definitely encourage you to give them that feedback and know where they stand and then also kind of go in with that. Make sure that the managers are engaged. The managers really do make or break the internship.
Courtney Lamers | 00:19:41:21 - 00:20:07:08
I think, you know, are they accessible? Are they providing feedback or are they providing meaningful work? I know one company that their manager met with them every single Thursday after the intern program and they just talked about what did they learn, what do you want to learn internally and how can you grow? And they were like, “This is the highlight of our week because our manager cared and asked us what we learned and what else we wanted to learn.”
Courtney Lamers | 00:20:07:08 - 00:20:14:20
So like I said, make sure managers really know what it takes to have an intern and make sure that they have the time to let those interns be successful.
Sophie Boler | 00:20:15:02 - 00:20:38:01
Totally. And I think one thing you mentioned is that interns should really learn the business as a whole, not just your department. I think something that was fun—and it helped me learn too—was that I got to travel to other locations at MRA and I kind of got to see how their office worked. And it helped me learn about just the business as a whole, but it was a fun way to do it.
Sophie Boler | 00:20:38:01 - 00:21:00:11
So I think companies don’t have to just slap a binder on the intern’s table: “Here’s our history.” Like, they can make it fun somehow, and entertaining. But one thing we hear from companies, both for interns and candidates, is keeping them engaged before they start, which can be tricky. But what suggestions do you have to do this?
Courtney Lamers | 00:21:00:20 - 00:21:22:16
Yeah, and actually for sure, like keeping them engaged because I know a lot of companies are already at career fairs this fall, interviewing for next summer so, which is super exciting and exactly where they should be, but 9 months is a long time to keep somebody engaged before they start. The other thing we’re hearing, too, is that, you know, like you interned in the summer and then they offered you a full-time role.
Courtney Lamers | 00:21:22:16 - 00:21:40:00
How do you keep them engaged during the school year, too? So I think both kind of go hand in hand. But I was just reading an article the other day and there was a study that said the young professionals want to be contacted one to three times per month in the waiting period, for lack of a better word.
Courtney Lamers | 00:21:40:20 - 00:22:01:18
So I think that’s meaningful conversation. So if the company sends out a newsletter, you could have the manager forward that to them and just say, “Hey, we’re excited to see you in a couple of months. Like, here’s what’s going on at our company celebrations.” The other thing is just getting to know the team so you could have like their mentor reach out to them or other people on the team reach out.
Courtney Lamers | 00:22:01:18 - 00:22:19:04
But one to three times per month is a lot and it does take time, but I think it’s worth it if you can keep them engaged and keep them excited. I know one thing we try to do too is share some of the projects that we had coming up. You know, when you started, it was kind of a busy time for us, but in a good way.
Courtney Lamers | 00:22:19:04 - 00:22:42:06
You know, we were moving buildings. So I think we were sending you some photos of the renovations and what our new space would look like. So any exciting things going on at the company. The other thing, swag is a huge thing even before they start. If you can send them like a sweatshirt or a hat or a water bottle or whatever it is the interns and young professionals love—and actually all people love—swag and free stuff.
Courtney Lamers | 00:22:42:06 - 00:22:51:00
Exactly. So I think that’s something that’s really big. And even if you don’t send it in advance, hopefully that can be there on their desk when they start on day one.
Sophie Boler | 00:22:51:12 - 00:23:13:17
And I think what helped also for my kind of weird transition between intern and being hired on full time, I think was just like keeping the relationship alive too. And even if it wasn’t like, “Oh, like here’s a project that you could work on during school,” it was just, “How is your week going? How’s school going? Are you working on any fun projects up there?”
Sophie Boler | 00:23:13:20 - 00:23:28:11
Because then it shows me like, Oh, my company really cares about me and how I’m doing at school and outside of work too, but kind of bringing it full circle with both emerging leaders, interns, young professionals. What should companies be thinking about?
Courtney Lamers | 00:23:29:00 - 00:23:46:19
Yeah, so I think we covered a lot of great topics today. There are other two pieces that we haven’t really touched on that I want to cover, one of them being in diversity, equity and inclusion. I was talking to a company the other day and she, they hired 12 interns. So I don’t know how many they interviewed.
Courtney Lamers | 00:23:46:19 - 00:24:07:12
I don’t know if they just interviewed 12 or if they interviewed more than that. But she said every single candidate that she interviewed asked about the company’s DEI beliefs and practices. And so I just think I encourage companies to start thinking about that if they haven’t already, because the younger generations really care about that. And they are going to ask you about that in their interviews.
Courtney Lamers | 00:24:07:12 - 00:24:32:13
So you need to have an answer and it has to be transparent because I think, you know, people can see through it if it’s not true. So that’s one thing. The other thing I would say is career paths, and that doesn’t necessarily mean career ladders, but I think we hear interns and young professionals really want to grow and they want to grow quickly and they want to learn just in general.
Courtney Lamers | 00:24:32:13 - 00:24:52:04
So they want to have those individual development plans. And what skills am I good at? What skills do I need to develop and how am I going to do that to take me to the next level? And part of that is a lateral move. It doesn’t necessarily mean like, okay, I did these 12 things, I check the box, I did this project, I want to get promoted.
Courtney Lamers | 00:24:52:04 - 00:25:14:11
It could be, you know, trying a new role in a different department and learning about the business. I know we’ve talked about that a lot today as well, but really just having those career paths and those career conversations. So, you know, I know I was on a webinar the other day and somebody had asked like, okay, we’re a small company and, you know, people want to get promoted, but we only have 50 people in our company.
Courtney Lamers | 00:25:14:11 - 00:25:39:05
So how do you just keep moving up because they can’t be CEO within 3 years, you know, that type of thing. And so I think encouraging you to think creatively of taking on additional projects and trying different functions to really learn about the business as a whole. It doesn’t necessarily mean moving, up having that career path, but talking with the individuals about what they want to accomplish, what their short-term goals are, what their long-term goals are.
Courtney Lamers | 00:25:39:11 - 00:25:46:17
And just knowing that you as a company cares about that person both personally and professionally.
Sophie Boler | 00:25:46:21 - 00:26:01:05
For sure. Totally agree. But as we wrap up here, you’ve given a lot of advice and just good information that organization leaders, interns can use. But do you have any lasting advice or that key piece of advice that you want to end with?
Courtney Lamers | 00:26:01:15 - 00:26:31:00
I would just say talk to your people.  Figure out, you know, what do they want to do? How do they want to be recognized? What other areas are they interested in learning about and just letting them know how they impact your organization and where you can see them going from there. So I think it’s really important to understand the employee as a whole and what they truly want, because having those conversations helps you guide them and engage them and retain them, and then develop them into that next step.
Courtney Lamers | 00:26:31:05 - 00:26:34:21
So that’s what I would say. Talk to your people and learn about them as an individual.
Sophie Boler | 00:26:35:06 - 00:27:03:22
Great advice. As a young professional, I highly value every growth and just development opportunity I can take at this stage. And right now I’m just getting all the experience I can get—just a sponge. But we are all out of time for this episode, unfortunately. So thank you for sharing your expertise today. And we’ve actually linked Courtney’s LinkedIn profile in the show notes so if you want to continue this conversation with her, ask her any questions,
Sophie Boler | 00:27:03:22 - 00:27:19:04
I’m sure she’d be happy to chat and connect. Otherwise, we will see you next week to continue this conversation about training emerging leaders. So you won’t want to miss that. But thank you again, Courtney, and we will see you soon.
Courtney Lamers | 00:27:19:04 - 00:27:23:08
Yeah, thank you for having me and definitely feel free to reach out. I’d love to connect with all of you.
OUTRO | 00:27:23:16 - 00:27:47:00
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

The Ultimate Guide to Compensation

Description: This week, we've got two compensation experts to answer your questions! MRA's Katie Laven, Compensation Business Partner, and Brandon Lafferty, Compensation and Affirmative Action Data Analyst, team up to talk all-things compensation, including salary structure, pay transparency, pay compression, total rewards, recruiting and retaining talent, and more! 
Key Takeaways:
Review your salary structure often! Especially in a volatile market right now, it’s important to go in and review often. People are doing it every year right now. In a calmer market, we see every 2 years, occasionally 3.
Use reliable data when gathering that market data. And when you’re evaluating equity again, the external side, the market data—use those survey sources that are reliable and then internally keep an eye on the internal equity as well.
Communicate, communicate, communicate. Education and communication of why and what you're doing with compensation as an organization is important for employees to feel comfortable with their own compensation.
Let's Connect:
brandon.lafferty@mranet.org and katie.laven@mranet.org 
Brandon's LinkedIn Profile 
Katie's LinkedIn Profile 
 
Transcript
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
INTRO | 00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:23:13 - 00:00:50:07 
Well, hello, everybody. I am joined today by MRA’s Brandon Lafferty. He’s our compensations and affirmative action data analyst, and Katie Laven. She’s our compensation business partner from, and they’re both from our Minnesota offices. So it’s great to have you guys here, even if it’s virtual. But welcome you two. I’m excited to talk to you about compensation and benefits.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:50:16 - 00:01:19:01
This is a topic that I think everyone is very interested in hearing about, especially now. Now’s the time, with open enrollment going on, and it’s really just a good time to start addressing these, these things. But in our MRA’s Compensation Trend Survey, there is a lot of talk about different ways to compensate employees. And something else we hear quite a lot that is that it’s not a benefit unless your employee thinks it’s a benefit.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:19:09 - 00:01:51:12
And Katie, you actually spoke at our conference event this year, too. So let’s talk compensation based on MRA’s recent CompTrends survey, companies are actually projecting higher than normal base pay increases in the coming year. So for the past 3 to 5 years, the average increase has been around 3 percent. But this year, we’re seeing a projected increase in the next 12 months to around a 4 percent increase all across employee groups.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:52:04 - 00:02:09:03
And we’ve also heard that some companies are planning an even greater increase, which is huge. So, Brandon, do you want to really kick us off and could you tell us a little bit more about what you do and how you can help a company create a competitive compensation strategy?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:02:10:02 - 00:02:29:20
Sure. Thanks, Sophie. As you mentioned, I’m a compensation, kind of data analyst on our side. So I do a lot of the market pricing work, help out kind of on the back end of a lot of our projects, put together analyses and spreadsheets, kind of just work on work with our directors on the back end of any member projects.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:02:30:19 - 00:02:51:17
But yeah, to create a competitive compensation strategy, there’s a number of steps you kind of have to go through and we always recommend that first step is to establish some sort of compensation philosophy or have some, have some guidelines around what you want your compensation strategy to actually look like. So that could be how do you actually want to pay?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:02:51:18 - 00:03:11:14
Are you trying to pay exactly what the market looks like at that 50th percentile? Are you maybe a nonprofit that can’t quite meet what the market always is, so you’re lagging a little bit behind, but you make up to you make up for it with benefits or something like that? Or are you trying to pay like other competitors that are in the same geographic area as you?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:03:11:14 - 00:03:41:08
So you kind of want to establish that philosophy first and foremost as to how you’re looking to pay, and that kind of, that drives the rest of setting up the compensation strategy. So from there, we recommend that you go through and actually do the market pricing of all the relevant jobs within your company, within your organization. And that is, on our end that’s where we come in and really dive deep into the compensation salary surveys that we purchase.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:03:41:16 - 00:04:09:06
And we say, all right, you have a senior accountant position. What do senior accountants make in this given region based on the surveys that we purchase? So we go through all of the jobs looking up that market pricing data to say, “This is what the market pays for all of your job titles.” And then from there, we kind of create like a structure or assign pay grades or bands to the different positions that you have in your company.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:04:09:06 - 00:04:30:16
So you’re kind of looking at that market data and you’re saying, all right, these specific jobs, they all kind of align with similar market data. We’re going to put them into pay grade 10, something like that. So you’re kind of putting together a structure where, you know, you have an outline for new positions that come up. You have this structure that is easier to maintain.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:04:31:22 - 00:04:59:20
So you’re going through that process and then you can kind of look at how employees fit within that structure at the end. So there might be some employees that are making kind of towards that top end of a pay range or a pay grade, some towards the bottom end. And you want to look at those employees and say, “All right, why are they at one end or another of the range?” and kind of make recommendation as to how as to get people as close to aligned as possible within all of those grades.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:05:00:09 - 00:05:27:22
And then so that market pricing piece is really looking at external equity or repaying fairly among the marketplace among similar organizations to ours. And then you can look also at the internal equity portion of it. So am I paying fairly among similar like jobs within my own organization? So obviously lots of different pieces of it. But you know, you kind of got to touch every piece when putting together that competitive strategy.
Sophie Boler | 00:05:27:22 - 00:05:45:18
For sure. And I mean, you covered a lot there. So it seems like you guys have busy jobs, always keeping busy. But I’ll leave this next question open to either of you. So feel free to chime in. But shouldn’t organization really have a salary structure in place? And why should they or shouldn’t they?
Katie Laven | 00:05:46:04 - 00:06:06:14
I can take that one. I think it really kind of goes back to what Brandon was outlining in the last question. And having that salary structure is going to give you that baseline and it’s going to help you with a lot of decisions that you have to make within your organization. So once you have that overall structure, it allows you to be flexible.
Katie Laven | 00:06:06:14 - 00:06:41:14
It allows you to make analysis of the internal equity with your positions, and also it helps you compare to the external market. You can really see what types of increases you need to give your individuals that can help you support budgeting, cost controlling, and then making sure everything’s equitable as well within your organization. In tandem, as well, it can also help support education for your management and your employees and how you’re making those decisions and have that justification.
Katie Laven | 00:06:41:14 - 00:06:48:18
So it’s really a great baseline for you to make a lot of decisions within your business.
Sophie Boler | 00:06:50:01 - 00:07:00:03
Absolutely. And so we talked about having a grade salary structure in place, but how can an organization adapt with the changing market?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:07:00:22 - 00:07:24:08
Yeah, great question. I know you talked at the beginning that budgetary recommendations or estimates are kind of changing. The last 3 to 5 years is at 3 percent. It’s kind of bumping up. So I think it’s important to look at when the last time your structure was updated, has it been a couple of years? Was budget tough during the pandemic and you weren’t able to increase your structure the way you wanted to?
Brandon Lafferty  | 00:07:24:19 - 00:07:46:18
So I think looking at, all right, when was our structure last reviewed and does it make sense with the changing market that we need to review it again right now? This I mean, when you’re changing that structure, it kind of helps adjust the range. As you mentioned that 4 percent, if I increase my salary structure by 4 percent, you’re expecting the market data for the positions that we have to also go up around 4 percent.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:07:47:05 - 00:08:08:14
That allows you to keep the job title and the market data kind of in line with your salary structure. So especially in a kind of a volatile market right now, I think it’s important to go in and review often. People are doing it every year right now. In a calmer market, we see, you know, every 2 to years mostly, occasionally 3.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:08:08:14 - 00:08:17:03
But right now, I think people are understanding that it’s important to look at it every year. So people seem to be, you know, kind of focusing in on it pretty frequently right now.
Sophie Boler | 00:08:17:09 - 00:08:31:08
Absolutely. I think it’s important to stay up to date on that. But Katie, could you share your insights on how an employer can begin to establish what is really the best increase for their organization, specifically?
Katie Laven | 00:08:31:08 - 00:08:53:16
Yeah, I think that, you know, like Brendon mentioned, you want to look at the salary data and what is out there from a market perspective but you also really need to look at what your organization can really manage financially. How does your budget as an organization fall into that? What are your competitors doing? Where are they paying as well?
Katie Laven | 00:08:54:05 - 00:09:25:10
And that might vary depending on what industry you’re in. It might vary even within your organization. You might have a specific area of your organization that there is more competition for talent. So again, that structure, as we were talking previously, can really provide those parameters and give you that flexibility of where you need to adjust. But overall, from a structural standpoint, you really need to make sure that you’re also looking at kind of what Brandon mentioned earlier, too, is your compensation philosophy.
Katie Laven | 00:09:25:17 - 00:09:55:09
Where do you want to be in relation to that market data that you’re looking at? Is it leading, lagging? Are you at market? So all of those things are going to really come into play on deciding what increase you’re going to make. If your business is maybe and a little bit shake your ground or if you’re not quite sure what’s going on, you might not want to move that structure as aggressive early as in years when it is probably doing a little bit better.
Katie Laven | 00:09:55:09 - 00:10:15:01
If you are doing pretty financially solid, you maybe want to bump it up a little bit more just to offset those shaky years. But you really do want to be careful that you’re not lagging the market too much because that just makes it kind of that uphill battle consistently if you if you don’t keep up with it.
Sophie Boler | 00:10:15:21 - 00:10:46:20
Absolutely. And we’ve been talking about salary the past couple of questions, but we know that salary is just one part of the equation of compensation. But it is really the key question and key component. And we also know that there’s a lot of challenges for employers. The competition is intense for labor. And we’re looking at labor shortages, and we’ve talked about this and some past podcasts too, but the need to offer good wages as well as remote work or some big factors as well.
Sophie Boler | 00:10:47:07 - 00:10:54:17
So Brandon, could you comment on how companies can recruit and retain employees with all of these challenges going on right now?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:10:54:20 - 00:11:15:22
Yeah, and I think you touched on it. Salary is often what we see as the biggest factor. Obviously, there are the other components as well, but base salary is really what everybody’s kind of looking at. They want to know how much they’re going to get paid. But I think in addition to that, you can really you can get a lot by asking your employees what they’re looking for and what they want.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:11:15:23 - 00:11:36:03
I think a lot of times organizations just kind of say, we think this would be a good benefit for our employees, but they don’t take the time to maybe survey their employees to look at, you know, maybe what the organization thinks that the employees want doesn’t actually line up with what people, what people are looking for. And that can be, you know, a generational thing.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:11:36:03 - 00:12:00:05
It can be a location thing if you’re in a different location as the headquarters, anything like that. So I think it’s important to ask your employees what they’re looking for. I think also looking at critical positions within the company, too, like we have seen IT in particular has the market data for it has gone up more than other lines of lines of business in the last couple of years.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:12:00:13 - 00:12:26:08
So I think it’s important to know all right, right now IT is tough to find talent for. So maybe spend a little bit more resources on the recruiting and retention in that job function in particular. So knowing where you need to recruit and where kind of the pain points are with recruiting in a market and then educating your employees, letting them know what availabilities are out there, what benefits are available to people.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:12:26:16 - 00:12:49:00
And companies really are starting to have to kind of branch out too. So maybe recruiting is really tough in Waukesha. I need to branch out and look for employees in other states, other parts of the country. And that’s an important thing to think about too, because depending on the city you live in, depending on the market, that the going rate for a senior accountant might be different in these two different states.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:12:49:00 - 00:13:11:16
So I think companies also really take into account a geographic differential. If I had an employee in San Francisco, I’m obviously going to need to pay that person probably quite a bit more to do the same job that I’m doing here and in Minnesota or in Wisconsin. So I think kind of all of those factor into it. And then with all of that, a lot of that is focused on recruiting.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:13:11:16 - 00:13:34:11
But the retention part, you can’t forget about your existing employees too. So like, what benefits can I give to them? How does how do these changes with recruiting this new talent? Maybe I’m paying these people a little bit more to come in. How does that then impact my current employees? So yeah, kind of all of those things that you’re working.
Sophie Boler | 00:13:34:11 - 00:13:56:16
For sure. I think what you said about just talking to your employees is a trend that I’ve seen on our podcast episodes. I mean, it’s like, what do your employees want? Talk to them, what are they interested in? And making it a very individual process too; not everything is going to work for everybody. But with these higher wages being offered to new hires,
Sophie Boler | 00:13:56:16 - 00:14:04:22
we’re also hearing about pay compression. So, Katie, do you have any recommendations for how an organization can work through this issue?
Katie Laven | 00:14:04:23 - 00:14:28:12
Yeah, it goes really back and we are being a little bit redundant here, but it goes back to that salary structure that is again going to give you that that baseline and give you that overarching structure to see where everyone is sitting from your existing employees and where you’re bringing in those new employees. So you can really determine where are we having those compression issues?
Katie Laven | 00:14:29:17 - 00:14:52:20
Another piece of that is people historically have looked at that pay is kind of the thing you don’t talk about, right? Or that they’re assuming employees aren’t talking. Well, the fact of the matter is, they definitely are. And people are doing more research. There’s more data available on the Internet as well of what is out there from a salary perspective.
Katie Laven | 00:14:52:20 - 00:15:17:07
So compression is definitely something that you need to be mindful of and pay equity in place with that. So when you’re looking at those compression issues, you really want to make sure that you are focusing on those existing employees as well and getting them where they need to be within that internal equity and structure. And that might take a year or two.
Katie Laven | 00:15:17:07 - 00:15:46:12
You maybe need to have a little bit of plan in place from a budgetary perspective, again, based on whatever is going on in your organization. And it might be something you have to do outside of your regular performance merit cycle. It might be something that you’re doing as a market adjustment or an off-cycle adjustment. And again, it might be something you have to check out over time, but you want to make sure you’re addressing it is something you can’t just turn a blind eye to and think that it’s going to kind of solve itself over the course of time.
Sophie Boler | 00:15:46:23 - 00:15:59:18
Absolutely. And Katie, you kind of touched on this in your last point. But Brandon, if you have anything to add, what role does pay equity play in pay decision and how do companies evaluate internal pay equity?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:16:00:15 – 00:16:25:16
Yeah, yeah. And we’ve talked at length already about the external side. The external pay equity: How are we comparing to the market with our pay? But that internal side, you really want to make sure people are being paid fairly within the organization kind of can come a different a couple of different ways. You can look at the salary bands and you say, are there people paid pretty similarly if their pay grade 10 within our range.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:16:26:00 - 00:16:48:11
But another part of it that we’re seeing more and more members touch on is like an actual pay equity analysis, which looks at protected groups, women, people of color, people with disabilities—those kind of groups and say, and kind of chunk people into those groups and say, all right, do the women in our organization, how are they being paid compared to men in similar positions?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:16:48:20 - 00:17:19:05
So we do lots of these pay equity analyses as well, and a good example is we look at a specific kind of job group within the company—let’s say it’s like first line managers, supervisors—and we say, all right, I’m going to compare what the pay rate is for men versus women in that small group. And we might see that they make similar amounts, but within when factoring in the pay grade, it looks like men do make significantly more than women.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:17:19:05 - 00:17:39:12
So we look at, again, women and we look at racial groups. We look at disability status, veteran status when kind of factoring that in. And once you, a lot of times you do find some surprising points to say, all right, among our individual contributors, there is significant pay differences among men and women, like, why is that going on?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:17:39:20 - 00:17:57:14
You can break it out by location. You can look at, all right, it’s only in this one office. It’s not in all of our offices. And then we can put together an employee impact report, which looks at all right, we break employees into how long have they been in their job, how long have they been in the company? What’s their age?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:17:57:20 - 00:18:17:03
Maybe somebody is making way more. We’re on the high side of a range, but they’ve only been in the job under a year, only been in the company under year, and they’re a young person. So you as internal HR would look at that and say, all right, why is this person making the higher end of the range when they haven’t been in the company that long?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:18:17:03 - 00:18:34:03
They don’t have as much experience. And that might be something that you want to look at when considering the pay equity portion. But yeah, just important to look at those protected groups and see within the company across different groups and locations are there significant pay differences between these groups of our employees?
Katie Laven | 00:18:35:08 - 00:18:50:04
I would say, too, this is an area where we’re seeing expanding legislation and increased scrutiny. So it’s something that is becoming more and more prevalent and organizations really need to be aware of.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:18:50:05 - 00:19:00:12
It’s a newer offering that we even have within MRA, and since we started offering it, people are, people seem to be jumping on it. We’re already starting to do some renewals. So definitely increasing.
Sophie Boler | 00:19:00:12 - 00:19:23:18
So keeping you busy. Well, while we know that base pay may help attract talent, they also talk a lot about total compensation as a significant factor in fostering an employee’s commitment. So what are some common options that companies should consider? I mean, we know that from the survey, one of the most common solutions is variable or incentive pay.
Sophie Boler | 00:19:24:02 - 00:19:28:03
So, Katie, do you want to take this one and explain it a little bit further?
Katie Laven | 00:19:28:17 - 00:19:53:04
Yeah. So total compensation really is something that you want to highlight with your employees, but you have to be mindful of how you’re communicating that. And when we’re talking about total comp that’s really looking at your base pay, which is probably something that employees really look at the most closely, and we as well from a market perspective are going to look at most closely.
Katie Laven | 00:19:53:15 - 00:20:26:18
But it’s also incorporating those incentives. It’s bonuses, it’s any benefits, PTO, anything essentially the company is paying for, for you could be considered your total compensation package. But really, when you’re looking at it from an organizational standpoint and how do I be competitive right in this market, you really need to look at and make sure you’ve got that base pay first and foremost in alignment, because if you don’t have that, all the other stuff is, it’s on top of, right?
Katie Laven | 00:20:26:18 - 00:20:56:21
It’s not guaranteed and it’s going to vary so much significantly depending on what organization you’re in and how those plans are set up. The other piece with incentives is a lot of employees don’t typically probably understand the complexity of that. And if they even do get those incentives, sometimes they don’t understand that usually it’s not guaranteed, but they come to expect that it’s guaranteed.
Katie Laven | 00:20:56:21 - 00:21:18:21
So that’s where we see a lot of retention issues or dissatisfaction with employees. So again, it goes back to make sure you educate your employees. If you do have those incentive plans or those bonus plans, how do they work? How does that play into their total compensation package so that they really understand how can they be successful with those incentive plans?
Katie Laven | 00:21:18:21 - 00:21:26:13
What is driving that? How does that work for the employee and also for the organization and really articulating that with them.
Sophie Boler | 00:21:27:09 - 00:21:35:16
So how about some uncommon options? What are some things that employers are doing differently with their benefits?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:21:36:01 - 00:22:14:00
Yeah, we’ve seen people focus on a number of different things, especially in these last couple of years. I think health benefits, people are looking at expanded health benefit options, low-cost options, low-deductible options, changes in paid time off or sick time and 401(k) options obviously are people love to have an option for 401(k). And again, the biggest way to find out what employees want, you know, with anything, survey them, ask them as we’ve talked about. I think companies really tend to be focusing on health disparities, too.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:22:14:00 - 00:22:43:03
So health disparities among racial groups, among LGBTQ employees, among disability status. So looking at what health options can we provide to groups that historically have had maybe bigger health disparities and kind of focusing on those things. Some unique things that we’ve seen too are we’ve seen people add additional holidays. We recommend sometimes that you give your employees your birthday off or your work anniversary.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:22:43:22 - 00:23:17:06
We’ve seen some employees shifting around holidays. If you can’t add an additional holiday, some companies have MLK Day off in February now. And we have seen people recommend changing that over to having Juneteenth off. People like having a day in the summer. So kind of looking at changing up those as well. Also a flexible schedule hasn’t really become too popular yet, but people are exploring the flexible schedule option where you just work 4 days a week and the reduction of hours doesn’t impact salary.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:23:17:06 - 00:23:35:13
So kind of all sorts of things that people are still looking at. Indigenous Peoples Day versus, you know, branding as Columbus Day, pet insurance, all of those kind of unique benefits that are out there. You know, again, ask your employees what they want and is it worth bringing in those new benefits to retain that talent?
Sophie Boler | 00:23:36:15 - 00:23:56:01
I think we’re definitely seeing employers turn on their creative mode right now. But another important issue that we probably should talk about today is inflation. So do you have any recommendations for how employers can help their employees with inflation? And, Katie, I’ll let you take this one.
Katie Laven | 00:23:56:16 - 00:24:26:08
Yeah, this is a question that continues to pop up and we hear quite a bit about and it is really helping your employees and probably your leadership as well understand that there’s a difference between your salary and the cost of labor versus the cost of living and inflation. And, you know, we’ve had ups and downs throughout our economic lives.
Katie Laven | 00:24:26:08 - 00:24:56:11
And with that, they have been tied at times to a similar amount, but typically they are not going to be the exact same. They are two separate things. We are seeing organizations still do stuff to offset that inflation because it is hard for employees. Their paychecks are really not stretching quite as far as they were before, but that might mean an increase to their salary.
 Katie Laven | 00:24:56:17 - 00:25:22:04
If you are doing those types of inflation increases, you need to make sure you’re really helping them understand that this might be a unique one-time increase and that their salary increases typically are not going to be tied to that inflation or cost of labor. Some other unique things you know, we just talked about benefits that we’re seeing organizations do instead of those salary increases
Katie Laven | 00:25:22:12 - 00:25:47:07
is giving other types of adjustments, like that might be additional time off, it might be gift cards for gas or groceries—some of those things that we’re having trouble, you know, making that paycheck stretch. So it might be some other perks versus just salary increases. I think with it, again, it really goes back to messaging and making sure that your employees understand the difference between those two things.
Katie Laven | 00:25:47:07 - 00:25:55:02
And if you are doing any of those increases or perks, why and how is that working for them?
Sophie Boler | 00:25:55:02 - 00:26:09:14
For sure. Yeah, and we’ve covered this a little bit, just touched on it. But I want to go a little more in depth about pay transparency. So Brandon, can you just give us a little rundown of pay transparency and where we’re at right now?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:26:10:04 - 00:26:30:20
Yeah, absolutely. I think we’ve seen there are states out there now that are requiring that you post like a pay grade for a given position and a job posting, and what that pay range is for that grade. It’s only becoming more and more common. The transparency, as Katie touched on earlier, you know, employees are talking about it. It’s not hidden anymore.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:26:30:20 - 00:26:55:18
It’s not a secret. So I think it’s only increasing. There are already government organizations like public schools, those kind of organizations where that pay data is already available. I think for companies kind of transitioning to having a more pay transparent, like compensation structure is you really just have to explain why you’re making the decisions that you’re making.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:26:55:18 - 00:27:23:00
So that’s where the structure piece comes in. Having a pretty, you know, established structure allows you to justify why pay decisions are being made. Explaining where you get your data from. You know, “We consult with MRA and they purchase these compensation surveys that get the market data.” You can communicate that to your employees and say, “We purchased these surveys that come out every year. In 2022,
Brandon Lafferty | 00:27:23:00 - 00:27:42:06
this is what the market says for this job.” And then how does this stuff align with experience? So you can, you know, those people that have been in the positions a long time, they might sit within a different portion of a given pay grade. You might have specific zones set apart for experience in each pay grade.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:27:42:15 - 00:28:11:06
But communicating why two people with the same job title might be making a little bit different amounts because maybe one person has more experience than another. And talk about how often this is reviewed. So again, with how quickly the market is changing, it’s good to review this stuff often. Companies are, I think, can be kind of afraid that once they make this stuff public, their employees are going to be unhappy or have questions, and questions are okay as long as you’re prepared to answer them.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:28:11:06 - 00:28:20:13
So I think, you know, transitioning towards pay, transparency is good for the employees. So yeah, we recommend it.
Sophie Boler | 00:28:21:15 - 00:28:44:22
Absolutely. We just recently talked to our recruiting manager, Kathy, and she almost said the exact same thing. So, definitely going to be seeing more of that. But like we said, we know in today’s world, traditional benefits and compensation strategies are no longer enough to meet the demands of today’s workers. So employees also need to be aware of their total rewards.
Sophie Boler | 00:28:45:06 - 00:28:52:04
So Katie, what suggestions do you have on how a company can best share their total rewards with their employees?
Katie Laven | 00:28:52:04 - 00:29:15:10
Yeah, I would say communicate, communicate, communicate. And I feel like a broken record a little bit. We’ve said that. But you know, we have so many things coming at us these days and we know people only retain how much that they’re hearing or seeing. So you have to do it in multiple formats too, would be the other thing that I would recommend.
Katie Laven | 00:29:15:18 - 00:29:46:12
But some ways that employers can really drive that home is provide total compensation statements and a lot of HRIS systems have software built into them that they can create them. We create them here at MRA if people need them. I know some organizations do them in-house, but providing again, that total compensation package that we talked about earlier, really educate employees at all aspects of their career, whether that’s in orientation and throughout the onboarding process.
Katie Laven | 00:29:47:06 - 00:30:09:06
Another good time to do it for your existing employees is during annual enrollment. So it doesn’t have to be just about your benefits, right? Compensation and all of that plays into it. Helping them understand those incentive plans that we talked about earlier. You can do it through, you know, monthly reminders, email newsletters, if you have town halls—any way that your organization is sharing.
Katie Laven | 00:30:09:06 - 00:30:30:12
Communication, I think is really a way to get that message out and again, doing it in different formats. But you really want your employees to understand all of that work that you’re doing as HR professionals and to try and recruit and retain them, that they really understand what’s all going into that and see the value that they bring to the organization as well.
Sophie Boler | 00:30:31:16 - 00:30:46:12
Absolutely. And well, it seems like we are running out of time. But can you leave our listeners today with three main takeaways in establishing their best compensation plan? I know it might be hard to name three, but ...
Brandon Lafferty | 00:30:47:20 - 00:31:09:02
Yeah, I think I think we’ve touched on, you know, all these pieces. But I think the first and biggest component is to have a strategy, philosophy, have some guidelines in place. You’re putting together this compensation structure, a whole compensation plan for a reason. What is, what’s the long-term goal you’re looking you’re looking at from this process?
Brandon Lafferty | 00:31:09:02 - 00:31:38:21
Second, I would say use reliable data when gathering that market data. And when you’re evaluating equity again, the external side, the market data—use those survey sources that are reliable and then internally keep an eye on the internal equity as well. And then last, Katie touched on it: Communicate, communicate, communicate. I think education and communication of why and what we’re doing with compensation is important for our employees, for them to feel comfortable with their own compensation.
Brandon Lafferty | 00:31:38:21 - 00:31:42:09
So just again. Yeah, communicating what we’ve done and why.
Sophie Boler | 00:31:43:05 - 00:32:08:17
Absolutely. Well, thank you, guys. Again, this has been really informative. Seems like there’s so much that goes into planning, compensation and benefits, and we definitely have resources to help with that. So to all of our listeners, make sure you check out MRA, our website or reach out to Brandon and Katie. I’m sure they’d be happy to connect with you, but that is all the time we have for today.
Sophie Boler | 00:32:08:17 - 00:32:30:15
So thank you for joining us virtually. We have linked Brandon and Katie’s LinkedIn profiles in the show notes. So like I said, if you have any lingering questions or just want to chat, I’m sure they’d be happy to connect with you. But next week we will be talking about emerging leaders with Courtney Lamers. So be sure to tune in for that.
Sophie Boler | 00:32:31:01 - 00:32:59:01
But thank you again, Katie and Brandon and to the listeners, we will see you next Wednesday.
OUTRO
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 
 
 

SPECIAL EPISODE: Now What? 2023 Economic Outlook

Description: In this special edition episode, we welcome Dr. Chris Kuehl, expert economist, on the show to touch on the 2023 economic outlook. He addresses what the key leading indicators are telling us, the outlook for the market segments most important to your industry, and what you should consider as you begin your 3, 5, and 7-year planning.
Key Takeaways:
We're moving more towards self-service and automation. We're looking for anything that can be done with a machine, even though it means more of an investment.
Much of inflation is driven by the fact that wages have gone up. Wages have gone up on average by around 6%. Part of the reason for that is mass retirement. 
The number one way that companies are hiring now is by poaching each other. So you've got to protect your own staff from being poached.
Let's Connect:
chris.kuehl@armadaci.com 
Chris' LinkedIn Profile 
Transcript
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
INTRO | 00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. Now, it's time to thrive. 
Sophie Boler | 00:00:26:00 - 00:00:53:14
Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 minute THRIVE. Today is a special one because we're joined with Dr. Chris Kuehl. He's an expert economist and Director of Armada Corporate Intelligence. He's a frequent speaker on economic issues in the US and globally, and he's spoken at a bunch of different conferences devoted to manufacturing, logistics, finance, credit, retail, accounting, and many others.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:53:21 - 00:01:20:08
So overall, his specialties include corporate and competitive intelligence, strategy, development, international market analysis and market development, and economic trending. So, Chris, I know you just got done speaking at our fall-featured event on the 2023 Economic Outlook. So thank you so much for joining us today and taking the time to spend it with us and share your expertise and knowledge on this topic.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:20:08 - 00:01:28:20
But let's dive right in with the first question. So if there is one economic impact business leaders should be looking at, what is that one thing?
Chris Kuehl | 00:01:29:03 - 00:01:54:06
It's probably the percentage of concern over whether there will be a recession or not, because we're kind of on the edge of going either direction. We could go into a downturn, come next year or we can kind of avoid it. It's going to depend a lot on how the consumer handles their extra savings. They've still got about $3.5, $3.6 trillion in excess savings, which they could spend this year.
Chris Kuehl | 00:01:54:17 - 00:02:14:13
If they do, then we basically spend our way out of the recession. If they don't, and they hang on to it for next year because they're worried about next year, then we could see more of a downturn. So really, it comes down to how realistic is the notion of a serious downturn; how bad is inflation going to be or continue to be?
Chris Kuehl | 00:02:14:23 - 00:02:19:09
And then from the audience that you've crushed, like, what does this mean to employment?
Sophie Boler | 00:02:19:16 - 00:02:33:14
Absolutely. And kind of switching gears a little bit, we know that we lost 21 million workers last year due to retirement. So how is this and the labor shortage just in general really affecting the economy?
Chris Kuehl | 00:02:33:15 - 00:02:50:13
Hugely. I mean, if you look at what's going on with inflation right now, a lot of it is driven by the fact that wages have gone up. Wages have gone up on average around 6 percent. Part of the reason for that is that you've had that mass retirement. You have a lot fewer workers in the system than we used to.
Chris Kuehl | 00:02:50:13 - 00:03:13:04
The baby boomer kind of protected us from that for a while because the boomer was reluctant to retire. But now they are. And we hit retirement at the rate of about 10,000 a day. So it's taken a toll. The workers never had more leverage. Anybody in HR is well aware of that now. They're asking for more money; they're asking for better benefits.
Chris Kuehl | 00:03:13:04 - 00:03:23:22
They want more flexible schedules. All of that becomes a challenge. And then you just look at the impact from an inflation perspective. Wages going up means that everything else goes up.
Sophie Boler | 00:03:24:05 - 00:03:35:02
Absolutely. And we've also heard that inflation can be a period of opportunity for the rebuilding of the domestic economy. So can you elaborate on this a little bit more?
Chris Kuehl | 00:03:35:03 - 00:03:58:19
Yeah. Part of what's been fueling some of that inflation and some of that worker shortage is that we're getting a lot more reshoring. One of the reasons that you've seen worker leverage increase is that people are bringing business back to the U.S. The advantages of being overseas have diminished. We've not seen the same kind of bang for the buck that we used to by producing in China or producing elsewhere in Asia.
Chris Kuehl | 00:03:59:06 - 00:04:27:03
Reshoring this year has brought about $1 trillion back to the U.S. economy. Very good news for the growth of the economy overall. Good news for people getting better jobs, getting an opportunity to work here. However, it also means that there is a more acute labor shortage than before because those jobs are coming back home from overseas. With that comes higher wages, better benefits, all of that.
Sophie Boler | 00:04:27:20 - 00:04:40:10
We're seeing more automation in the form of self-checkouts. And you mentioned that you've even encountered robotic waitstaff, and I don't know if you want to share that story, but how does this have an impact on the economy?
Chris Kuehl | 00:04:40:13 - 00:05:12:00
Yeah, we've been seeing automation get into things like manufacturing for quite a while. I mean, we're all aware of the robot revolution there, but now we're seeing it in the service sector. And as you mentioned, the robot server, which was a bit of a surprise. I'm at a hotel and this little robot comes rolling up to my table, and cheerfully tells me that my breakfast is there, and asked me if I like the temperature of the coffee, and I'm like okay, so this little robot wearing an apron that says, "Marge", I'd sampled the coffee,
Chris Kuehl | 00:05:12:00 - 00:05:42:04
And if you're happy, she says, "Press the green button." You know, I haven't had a waitstaff ask me if my coffee was the right temperature in months. And you're just getting this reaction to it's harder and harder to find even simple employees like service employees. So it's moving more towards self-service, it's moving towards automation. It's looking for anything that can be done with a machine is now a possibility, even though it means more upfront investment.
Sophie Boler | 00:05:42:18 - 00:05:53:12
And we have a lot of members and our listeners are in the healthcare industry, the hospitality industry, and the manufacturing industry. So how is this specifically impacting those industries?
Chris Kuehl | 00:05:53:13 - 00:06:11:10
Yeah, if you look at manufacturing, the revolution has been going on for 20 years. I mean, you see a lot fewer people doing the kind of work they used to on the line. Now it's being done by robots. Now you're starting to see it more aggressively in health care. Some countries have gone so far as to have robot helpers.
Chris Kuehl | 00:06:11:11 - 00:06:32:07
I mean, the Japanese in their assisted living centers, most of the attendants are robots, and the people there indicated they like the robots better than they like the people. So if you look at hospitality, that's where self-service has taken over. I mean, every time you check into a hotel, you can do it with your phone. You don't have to talk to anybody.
Chris Kuehl | 00:06:32:12 - 00:06:41:15
We don't have room service anymore. You know, is it's more and more recognizing that, A, it's hard to find those people and then it's hard to keep them.
Sophie Boler | 00:06:42:07 - 00:06:49:14
Absolutely. And this is this is a larger, broader question, but can we stop inflation without causing a recession?
Chris Kuehl | 00:06:49:18 - 00:07:15:20
Oh, yeah. I mean, inflation right now is really driven predominantly by that supply chain breakdown, which is slowly beginning to reverse. And we're not expecting it to get better when it comes to products coming from China. But the more that we reshore, the more that we're able to produce our own stuff. The wage issue is another question. At some point there's going to be an interruption in those wage increases.
Chris Kuehl | 00:07:15:20 - 00:07:35:10
Companies just simply won't be able to afford it. The more likely reaction when it comes to most companies is that they're going to try to do more with fewer employees. And it will basically come down to, yes, we are going to pay this guy a lot more money than we used to. But he's also now doing the job of four different people.
Sophie Boler | 00:07:36:12 - 00:07:47:18
So our companies are really wondering right now, what should we be concerned about? So do you have one critical concern that organizations should really be prepared for this upcoming year?
Chris Kuehl | 00:07:47:18 - 00:08:06:23
When it comes to HR, probably two answers. One for HR, one for the company in general. If you are on the HR side of things, what you've really got to think about is where do you recruit your new workers and how do you retain the people you have? The number one way that companies are hiring now is poaching each other.
Chris Kuehl | 00:08:07:09 - 00:08:39:18
So you've got to protect your own staff from being poached. And money is a part of it. But really it's more of the job environment. It's the being sensitive to the needs of that employee, which right now, schedule flexibility has emerged as the number one question that a new employee or an existing employee has. In a more broad sense, the number one concern is balancing fears of a recession with being ready for if there isn't a recession.
Chris Kuehl | 00:08:40:01 - 00:09:07:06
I mean, it's easy enough to prepare for a downturn just by laying people off and reducing one's purchase of inventory. But if we don't get the downturn, well, that comes back to bite you because your sales begin to suffer. A real good example of how difficult it has been to predict that recession trend is that we thought that we were going to have very, very minor growth in the third quarter of this year.
Chris Kuehl | 00:09:07:12 - 00:09:27:05
Instead, we got 2.6 and it's like, what? We were supposed to get .3 when we got 2.6, which means there was a lot more activity than we thought there was going to be. And that was stressing particularly companies in manufacturing, because part of that growth was based on export demand.
Sophie Boler | 00:09:28:02 - 00:09:45:22
Yeah. Just commenting on your first comment about attracting and retaining talent, we've had some conversations on the podcast about that and really employers just need to start getting creative on it. But as we wrap up our time here, do you have a couple key takeaways that you can give to our listeners today?
Chris Kuehl | 00:09:46:09 - 00:10:08:08
Yeah, I think the key takeaway from my talks lately have been kind of in the category of talking people off a ledge. We are probably not heading for a particularly deep downturn. Most of the predictions are by the end of next year, we're back to normal growth. We are, to a certain degree, experiencing a letdown from '21.
Chris Kuehl | 00:10:08:09 - 00:10:31:00
'21 was such a high-growth year that anything feels slow compared to 6 percent growth last year. And then the other, I guess, concern is just to focus on the fact that there is still a lot of money in the economy. It's got to go somewhere. It's either going to come out this year in the spending season or it will start to come out to some degree next year.
Chris Kuehl | 00:10:31:00 - 00:10:53:14
And, it's important to note that most of that extra money is in the hands of people who are making $70, $80, $90,000 and above. So you've got two very different responses. People making less than $50,000, they're having to resort to credit cards. Inflation has really hit them hard. People with higher incomes still have a lot of flexibility.
Sophie Boler | 00:10:53:15 - 00:11:15:12
Right. Well, thank you, Chris, for joining us today and sharing some good advice and tips and things that businesses can look forward to and look to plan for. But if you would like to get in contact with Chris, we have linked his email and his LinkedIn profile in the show notes, so be sure to check those out if you like to get in contact with him.
Sophie Boler | 00:11:15:22 - 00:11:30:17
I'm sure he'd love to connect and chat with you about economics, but other than that, we will see you next week when we bring in two compensation experts. So I look forward to seeing you there. But thank you, Chris, again. And we'll see you next week.
OUTRO | 00:11:30:17 - 00:11:53:06
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect for more podcasts updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minute THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

Innovative Recruiting: 7 Things You Wish You Knew!

Description: Are you staying up-to-date in the recruiting world? We sit down with MRA Manager of Recruiting Services, Kathy Seidel, as she shares the top “7 Things You Wish You Knew About Innovative Recruiting!” From search engine optimization, to salary information sharing, to having a “hunting mentality”, Kathy covers it all. 
Key Takeaways:
Search Engine Optimization is your best friend! Know the key words, and use them in your descriptions and postings!
Be transparent when recruiting! Share the important details of the job!
Sometimes you can get stuck doing the same recruiting process you’ve always done. Network with other recruiters inside and outside of your organization – They can help bring new ideas and solutions to your challenges!
Let's Connect:
Bio - Kathy Seidel
Kathy's LinkedIn Profile
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not be 100% accurate word for word 
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;05
Hello hello, everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go-to podcast for anything and everything H.R., powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:27:01 - 00:00:50:11
Hello, everybody. I’m here with Kathy Seidel today. She’s our manager for recruiting services team and she really started as a recruiting business partner and made her way up to leading the team. So, she comes with a lot of knowledge and expertise in the recruiting world, but she’s actually come prepared today with the top seven things people need to know about recruiting in today’s market.
Sophie Boler | 00:00:50:18 - 00:01:01:13
So, we’re going to cover that today. You’ll be able to walk away with seven points by the end of the episode, but thanks for being on the podcast, Kathy. I’m excited to talk recruiting with you today.
Kathy Seidel | 00:01:01:13 - 00:01:03:03
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
Sophie Boler | 00:01:04:10 - 00:01:17:22
Absolutely! But before we get into your top seven things that people need to know about recruiting in today’s market, let’s talk a little more big-picture ideas. So, what are some trends that you’ve been seeing in the recruiting world?
Kathy Seidel | 00:01:18:15 - 00:01:45:23
Yeah, it’s definitely been really difficult to recruit for probably the last 2 years. But we are seeing things lighten up a little bit. We’re seeing less jobs posted. Unemployment numbers are still really low. So, there’s not a lot of candidates in the market. And so, we’re really seeing a shift from passive recruiting to that really active recruiting. So, you have to be okay with reaching out to people who aren’t applying to your jobs or targeting that perfect candidate.
Kathy Seidel | 00:01:46:10 - 00:02:00:18
And it’s a scary place for some people. You kind of feel like you’re stalking at times! And so how do you know where that line between being a professional, you know, doing what’s best for your company, but also doing what you’re comfortable with when you’re recruiting.
Sophie Boler | 00:02:01:18 - 00:02:12:14
So, what’s going to your top seven list right now? The first thing you mentioned was search engine optimization for posting. So, what can you say about that?
Kathy Seidel | 00:02:12:15 - 00:02:37:19
Yes, definitely. Even though it is a very you have to be active, you do still want to make sure your postings are getting in front of people. And the job boards like Indeed and LinkedIn have leaned towards search engine optimization so that you’re showing up with things like Google searches. So, you want to make sure that your job posting is, or your job title is in your posting five to seven times, which seems really weird when you’re writing it.
Kathy Seidel | 00:02:38:01 - 00:02:57:13
You quite literally want to say, “As a recruiting business partner with MRA, you will be doing…” and then have your bulleted list to be a recruiting business partner with MRA, you need to have. It feels really weird as you’re writing it, but when you read it back, and if you think in a candidate mindset, it’s fine and it works really well.
Kathy Seidel | 00:02:58:01 - 00:03:20:21
So, but that will help your job perform better than jobs that don’t have the title in there as often. In addition, as you’re filling out those postings, you want to make sure you’re filling information into every single box that you can. If it’s a box, say, on Indeed it’s a searchable feature on Indeed. And so, if you don’t have information in there and a candidate search by shift, your job is not going to show up.
Kathy Seidel | 00:03:21:07 - 00:03:56:18
So, it’s just making sure that you’re filling in everything you can. You’re connecting it to that engine optimization, you have keywords in there, you don’t have like company jargon or company logo or lingo to really make sure that your job is getting seen by as many people as possible and that it’s at the top of the boards, because there’s a lot of jobs posted still and so candidates really only look in the first page or two, and using some of those things really keep you in that first page or two and don’t get you way down at the bottom of the list.
Sophie Boler | 00:03:57:12 - 00:04:07:17
Something that we have in our team, it’s like a keywords sheet, kind of like a cheat sheet. We try to incorporate into every post. So, this is helpful.
Kathy Seidel | 00:04:07:19 - 00:04:19:12
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s where like a conversation with your hiring manager when you’re just kicking off the role of what are some keywords, what are some things that I should be including is really helpful.
Sophie Boler | 00:04:19:16 - 00:04:27:11
Yeah, absolutely. So, your key point number two revolves around salary information sharing. So why did you include this on your list?
Kathy Seidel | 00:04:27:19 - 00:04:53:13
And it was kind of strategically placed here too, because Indeed and LinkedIn especially are now requiring salary information on their postings or they’re going to put in an estimate. And the estimates are almost always wrong, especially here in the Midwest, because it’s using national salary data. And so, it’s comparing us to East Coast and West Coast, and the numbers show we’re typically a little lower.
Kathy Seidel | 00:04:54:00 - 00:05:17:00
And so, candidates are going in thinking, “Oh, wow, I can make $70,000 to $90,000!” when you might be thinking $60,000 to $70,000, and that’s setting you up not for success. So, making sure that you are including accurate information, you’ve got to really make sure that you’re prepared for that. People in your company might go look for your jobs that are posted and say, “Hey, I’m in a similar role.
Kathy Seidel | 00:05:17:00 - 00:05:38:03
I’m not making this range. What’s up with that?” So, you have to prepare for some wage studies, make sure you’re paying equitably, whether it’s someone who’s just joining or someone who’s been in your team for 10 years. But these boards are making you do it because there are other states that are making it required as part of job postings with some pretty hefty fines if you don’t include it.
Kathy Seidel | 00:05:38:03 - 00:05:42:22
So, they’re trying to protect themselves. So, you have to kind of get on top of it here.
Sophie Boler | 00:05:43:04 - 00:05:53:23
All right. So, going along with that, do you think it’s important to be pretty transparent when it comes to salary sharing and postings or …?
Kathy Seidel
Yes.
Sophie Boler
… Leaning more toward the conservative side? What are your thoughts on that?
Kathy Seidel | 00:05:54:05 – 00:06:16:04
I think transparency is the best way to go, especially because it’s one of the first questions that almost all candidates ask. You know, if you are reaching out to them on LinkedIn, sometimes the first thing you hear is, “Well, what’s the pay?” So, you’ve got to have your answer to that question, whether it’s in a LinkedIn message, in a phone screen, in person, in an interview, you have to be ready to answer that.
Kathy Seidel | 00:06:16:07 - 00:06:23:00
So that just kind of doing it really early on the posting end sets you up for success the whole rest of the way through the process.
Sophie Boler | 00:06:23:08 - 00:06:32:05
And then going along with that, the third thing you need to know about recruiting in today’s market, you mentioned, are referral bonuses. Can you talk a little about that, too?
Kathy Seidel | 00:06:32:05 - 00:06:52:01
Yes, yeah. So, we’ve been seeing over the last couple of years the most successful way to find candidates is through referrals. Number one, you’re getting people in your team currently who are saying, “I know this job and I know this person can do it.” It’s great because in some cases they might not be exactly what you’re looking for.
Kathy Seidel | 00:06:52:12 - 00:07:17:08
We’ve had a few people on the team who have been referred by someone. They’re not in recruiting, but they’ve got really similar skills that transferred over well, and now they’re doing great on our team. And so having some kind of structure in place to allow people to refer is going to get you more candidates and get you people who already know about your company, in most cases, already know about the job.
Kathy Seidel | 00:07:17:18 - 00:07:43:17
And it’s going to make that person who referred that other candidate stick more because they want to see that person succeed and they want to see them grow. I always say best case is the referral bonus gives a bonus to both the person who referred and the person who was referred. So, it’s kind of a referral/sign-on bonus and it can definitely be, you know, 6 months after the person starts. It doesn’t have to be right away.
Kathy Seidel | 00:07:44:04 - 00:07:50:11
But like I said, that helps kind of make some stickiness to both people and that’s going to lead to long-term success.
Sophie Boler | 00:07:50:19 - 00:07:55:08
And that’s a huge incentive for the employee too, go out there and find some great workers.
Kathy Seidel | 00:07:55:14 – 00:07:56:07
Yeah. Yeah.
Sophie Boler | 00:07:56:21 – 00:08:03:01
You mentioned SEO, salary sharing and referral bonuses now. So, what’s next on the list?
Kathy Seidel | 00:08:03:05 - 00:08:25:11
Yeah. So, what we’re hearing from candidates after the salary question is what are we talking about in terms of hybrid, remote, in-person flexibility? I, all the candidates that I talk to and that my team talks to, they’re not looking to be 100 percent remote. It can be a little, make you a little stir crazy if you’re 100 percent remote.
Kathy Seidel | 00:08:25:18 - 00:08:46:19
What people are really looking for now is flexibility. They got a taste of being able to be home for 4 hours because the plumber gave a window and you don’t know when he’s going to show up, and not having to take a whole day off for it or a half day off for it. You know vet appointments—they’re typically only open during business hours, doctor’s appointments, too.
Kathy Seidel | 00:08:46:19 - 00:09:08:21
So having that flexibility of either shifting your schedule around so maybe they can start a little earlier or wrap up their day later in the night or to be in person versus remote is really what people are looking for these days because they got a taste of it, and it was great. And clearly people showed they were still able to get their work done, too.
Sophie Boler | 0:09:09:05 - 00:09:19:13
Absolutely. And I can definitely attest to that too, that it’s nice not having like a permanent, set-in-stone schedule. It’s nice to have employers be flexible with that.
Sophie Boler | 00:09:20:00 - 00:09:20:11
Yeah.
Sophie Boler | 00:09:21:08 - 00:09:26:09
But what’s the fifth point that you would emphasize that people should take away from today’s episode?
Kathy Seidel | 00:09:26:13 - 00:09:47:15
Yeah. So, I want to kind of go back to what I talked about earlier with that. You have to be active in recruiting now and that can be, like I said, kind of a struggle point for some people. So, it’s switching from kind of the task-oriented mindset that recruiting can be of get this person screened, get this person in with the manager to a,
Kathy Seidel | 00:09:47:15 - 00:10:09:17
we call it a hunter’s mentality. So you want to go out and find, you know, it’s terrible to say the prey, but the person and you know, some people on our team call themselves professional matchmakers, that they’re finding that organization that’s looking for this person and they’re finding the person that fits and they’re marrying the two together all the time.
Kathy Seidel | 00:10:09:17 - 00:10:32:16
We have the organization that’s looking for the person, the perfect person, but those two don’t connect. So, you have to be the one to bridge that gap and to really make them, make the candidate see why this is the perfect role for them. And maybe sometimes make the hiring manager see why this is the perfect candidate for them, even if it’s not necessarily checking all 10 of the boxes if they’re eight out of 10.
Kathy Seidel | 00:10:32:23 - 00:10:58:04
But look, here’s how they can grow into those last two. So, it’s really kind of shifting your mentality, not just expecting the flow to come in because we’re seeing flow be really, really down. Part of that is having the tools to do that. So, LinkedIn Recruiter and Indeed Resume database are great tools to get some candidate data and to be able to reach out to candidates, but they come with a cost.
Kathy Seidel | 00:10:58:13 - 00:11:20:18
So, you have to be prepared for that and have to know what’s going to work best for your roles. Indeed is kind of a catchall, but does really well for manufacturing roles, entry-level roles. LinkedIn is more of a professional landscape. So, you know, as you’re comparing those things, figure out what works best for you, for your roles, and then also for how you reach out too.
Sophie Boler | 00:11:21:04 - 00:11:36:03
I like how you put that: the analogy of being a hunter or switching to a hunter’s mentality because that’s honestly what recruiting is really. But you have knowing when to laugh as another key point on your list. What do you really mean by this?
Kathy Seidel | 00:11:36:12 - 00:12:01:23
Yeah, so as I’ve mentioned a couple of times, recruiting is hard and when you switch to that hunting, it can be exhausting. I mean, you can spend 2 hours digging through profiles to maybe get 10 that fit what you’re looking for. An average response rate means if you hear from two of those, you did a good job. And so, you know, it’s a lot of work put in and it can be really demoralizing.
Kathy Seidel | 00:12:02:08 - 00:12:28:02
So, you know, have that smile file ready to go. Maybe it’s candidates who you placed and they’re so happy in their role and they sent you an email right as they started or a few months after, that you want to look back on when you have something difficult happen. Our team also has a little kind of shared folder where we save funny resumes or funny names or pictures of funny email addresses.
Kathy Seidel | 00:12:28:02 - 00:12:48:17
You know, as people kind of went through the email setup earlier in the 2000s, there’s some really funny emails out there. I will say my middle school email address is not appropriate at all, but that is why I do not use it. There are some people who are still using their middle school email addresses, and so having a folder of those to look back at,
Kathy Seidel | 00:12:49:00 - 00:13:03:15
when you have a candidate back out the Friday before they’re supposed to start, or when you have an especially difficult hiring manager, you’ve got to know when to like, kind of take that relaxed point and laugh because it can get really, really difficult.
Sophie Boler | 00:13:03:20 - 00:13:20:14
Yeah. And I think in recruiting more than ever, just like celebrating the milestones is super important. But we’ve reached to our last point now and that is increasing creative mindset. So, what do you really think about this phrase?
Kathy Seidel | 00:13:20:16 - 00:13:55:23
Yeah, yeah. So, with recruiting, and I kind of alluded to the there’s a lot of times you have managers who want 10 things in a candidate. You’ve got to be creative and help them see there’s not going to be the candidate with all 10 things, but how can we find the eight things that you absolutely need and the two things that we can train on to, you know, when you’re making job postings or when you’re going out searching, finding those different keywords, finding different areas to search, you know, getting creative to expand your candidate pool, especially for a diversity inclusion.
Kathy Seidel | 00:13:55:23 - 00:14:20:08
You can’t just search by the people who are currently in your organization because that’s just going to lead to the same as who’s currently in your organization. So, you’ve got to really be creative and think outside the box on things to find those top candidates and to find people who really expand your pool. Again, it can be exhausting, but that’s where I think having a good network is really helpful.
Kathy Seidel | 00:14:20:18 – 00:14:47:17
Both people who are in your industry and people who are doing recruiting. Roundtables and networking groups are my favorite thing because, one, you kind of feel seen sometimes when you sit down with them because you’re like, okay, it is not normal for a candidate to reschedule five times. Thank you. It’s not just me! But two, like you start to talk about the things that you’ve done, and they have ideas that you’ve done before, but you just haven’t thought of for this search.
Kathy Seidel | 00:14:48:02 - 00:15:12:11
So I always, always encourage, talk to other people when you’re having a tough search, not just people within your organization, but have those connections outside that they can say, Well, wait, have you tried this posting location or have you tried searching here or have you tried just searching “greater Milwaukee area” with a few keywords and leaving the title out and see if there’s titles that other organizations are using?
Kathy Seidel | 00:15:12:22 - 00:15:27:13
Those kinds of things are difficult sometimes when you’re very like process oriented and then you’re like, Nope, I have to completely change my process today to find something new. But that’s how you’re going to be successful. So, it’s important to kind of push for those things.
Sophie Boler | 00:15:28:02 - 00:15:40:14
That’s some great advice that you gave us but thank you for those seven things to remember. I think all of those are very important. But before we end the episode today, do you have any last thoughts that you share with our listeners?
Kathy Seidel | 00:15:41:16 - 00:16:04:02
Yeah, definitely. So, you know, as I’ve discussed, recruiting is hard right now. And, you know, there’s a lot going on in the news of, it might get easier, it might get more difficult, and so you’ve really got to decide how you want to kind of address the current talent landscape, know where you can be flexible for if things change, but really create your plan and move forward with it.
Kathy Seidel |00:16:04:12 - 00:16:25:22
Sometimes that might require something like A/B testing. So, as you’re reaching out to candidates, use one message for one group and one message for another to see what lands better for your candidates. It might require some changes to your job postings and things, but you’ve got to really figure out where do you want to go in this current landscape as it is, you know, today,
Kathy Seidel | 00:16:26:18 - 00:16:47:04
At, say, 8 a.m. that morning, know where you can be flexible as things change throughout and know where you can tap others for help, too. It’s hard, and especially when you’re in like a small to medium-sized organization and recruiting is not your only thing. Some of these things take time, and if you don’t have time, where can you tap for help?
Kathy Seidel | 00:16:47:10 - 00:16:58:07
So, know that you can’t tackle everything at once. That it might be small changes, but you know, you’re doing the best you can. I totally believe that no matter what you’re doing, you’re doing the best you can.
Sophie Boler | 00:16:58:07 - 00:17:31:12
Always. Keep positive. Well, thank you for sharing your expertise with us today. And I think we all can walk away with seven or more than seven really mean important modern-day tidbits. So, thank you again, Kathy. But we have her LinkedIn profile in the show notes along with some resources. So, if you have any questions or need any clarifications on her seven tips or want to just get any other tidbits from her, I think she’d be happy to connect.
Sophie Boler | 00:17:31:12 - 00:17:43:17
Otherwise, we will see you next week when we dive into the generational difference’s conversation. But thank you again, Kathy. This was fun, I had a good time, and we will see you all next week.
Kathy Seidel | 00:17:44:02 - 00:17:44:16
Thank you.
OUTRO | 00:17:45:13 - 00:18:07:19
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.

Getting the Most Out of Your Employee Experience

Description:
The employee experience is a never-ending process. What are you doing to ensure your employees are happy and engaged every single day? MRA’s Senior Recruiting and Retention Business Partner, Kristin Noack, sits down with us to explain how to get the most out of your employee experience, while setting you up as an employer of choice.
Listen to Discover:
Employee engagement is actually the destination, and the employee experience is the roadmap.
It’s important to understand, both at a macro level and micro level, what your employees are saying. Do this through engagement surveys, one-on-one meetings, etc.
A happy employee is an engaged employee, and a smooth and rewarding employee experience gives time back to managers!
Let's Connect:
Kristin (Smith) Noack LinkedIn profile
Transcript:
This is a computer-generated transcript--as accurate as possible.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;05
Hello hello, everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go-to podcast for anything and everything H.R., powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of H.R.? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;17 - 00;00;53;04
Now it's time to thrive. Hello, everybody. I am joined with Kirsten Noack today. She's our senior recruiting and retention business partner here at MRA and comes with over 15 years of experience. So she knows a lot. But she's hired, onboarded, trained and supported hundreds of employees throughout her career and is really here today to share that knowledge with all of you as we focus on employee experience as our main topic for today.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;53;13 - 00;00;57;18
So welcome to the show, Kristin. I'm excited to talk to you today.
Kristin Noack | 00;00;57;23 - 00;01;02;01
Thank you, Sophie. And so glad to be here to talk about a topic that I know well.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;02;10 - 00;01;13;11
Absolutely. Well, let's dive right into the first question. We're going to start a little broad. So could you tell me what the employee experience really means in your eyes?
Kristin Noack |;01;13;23 - 00;01;38;03
Absolutely. The employee experience to me really is the experience the employee encounters when they're engaged with your organization. Sounds pretty simplistic. Actually, a colleague of mine says it even in a more defined way that I like to talk about, and that is that the employee engagement is actually the destination, and the employee experience is the roadmap.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;38;19 - 00;01;57;18
I love that. Thanks. Well, in the previous two podcasts, we really went into the first steps of the employee experience, which talked about attracting talent and onboarding and all that fun stuff. So what are the next steps to creating a good employee experience?
Kristin Noack | 00;01;58;11 - 00;02;14;11
I'm glad you asked that. But Sophie we're going to take a step back because I know you recently talked to Jim Morgan about the candidate experience. And for those of you out there who have not been able to hear that podcast yet, I highly encourage it. There's a lot of similarities here between the candidate experience and the employee experience.
Kristin Noack | 00;02;15;02 - 00;02;39;28
And so I would say if you think back to what Jim was speaking with you about being a candidate, you really turn some tables. So he asked you a couple of questions about your candidate experience. And so if I remember correctly, I'm paraphrasing and recapping here, you talked quite a bit about when you were looking for employment, you looked at the culture of the organization, most likely by the Internet.
Kristin Noack | 00;02;39;28 - 00;03;05;25
You go to you trying to find articles, whatever that case may be. You thought about the culture. Would that be potentially of interest to you? Could that fit with who you are and what you were looking for? And then you had those discussions and you probably dug a little bit deeper. But those are the same things we actually talk about with an employee experience, because if you think about it, that candidate becomes the employee.
Kristin Noack | 00;03;05;25 - 00;03;34;05
So as in yourself, you became an employee thinking about those same things as well. But what happens next? Because that employee becomes part of the fabric of your organization. So you have to think of the other things. And that includes engaging in an employee, investing in an employee and communicating with an employee. If you think about the simple things you originally thought about when you did your candidate experience as part of the culture, what is the leadership saying?
Kristin Noack | 00;03;34;10 - 00;03;52;13
What about technologies in your workspace? It's the same thing you're thinking about as you become the employee. And I think that's important to understand. These are our next steps. Those don't change. You didn't walk into your job and say, Well, that's what I want yesterday. Today I want something else. So that part of you and that's part of an employee experience.
Sophie Boler | 00;03;53;00 - 00;04;09;09
Absolutely. And as you know, it's essential to keep staying up to date on these trends and changes like Jim discussed. So that being said, what are some of the new tools that you've seen to improve the employee experience these days?
Kristin Noack | 00;04;09;09 - 00;04;29;08
Glad you asked, because there's a couple of different ways you can look at tools that everybody thinks about making tools tangible is there technology? Is there something in that capacity? Sure, there are human resource technologies, the candidate size, those are the applicant tracking systems. It's the HRIS systems that become part of the organization once you're hired. And those are really important.
Kristin Noack | 00;04;29;08 - 00;04;55;08
And I think it's been mentioned in past podcasts about these up to date as possible. And those tools, an HRIS system can give employees a very great experience from being more adept at getting information, policy updates, communication. Let's face it, most of our employees in some cases now are not back in the workforce as they were before. We need to reach them from afar and as quickly as possible.
Kristin Noack | 00;04;55;08 - 00;05;18;11
But that's not the only way to communicate. Those are the only current tools that I think are really important for the employee experience. I think the tools that you've created now having to be forced into technology in Zoom meetings or team meetings are really important to communicate. Water Cooler discussions, just having a general discussion at a level between supervisors and employees is wonderful.
Kristin Noack | 00;05;18;21 - 00;05;29;01
What about town halls? I think those are really important too. We might have done them to some capacity before, but they've really risen to the challenge of what we do each day for employee experience.
Sophie Boler | 00;05;29;15 - 00;05;42;10
Right. And we know it's important to pay attention to what matters to every single employee at work. And this might be challenging. But how do you listen to each individual employee and their wants and needs?
Kristin Noack | 00;05;43;03 - 00;06;05;15
Very good question. Because, again, let's think back to that. You're a candidate. You've become an employee with your organization. Those wants and needs you just talked about, they're still part of you, whether you're sitting in the outside meetings and that you're internally as an employee. What can you do? So I think it's important to look at it in a capacity of surveys in this state.
Kristin Noack | 00;06;05;28 - 00;06;40;09
I think it's important to understand, both at a macro level and micro level, what your employees are saying. So how can you do that? One of the ways is, for instance, MRA does an engagement survey in a great department that works quite extensively on all this information that an organization is looking at about their entire employee base. And those engagement surveys are wonderful to help us look within those quantitative and qualitative factors, what the trends are, what are the satisfaction points for your employees?
Kristin Noack | 00;06;40;20 - 00;06;59;10
And I think if you're looking for a way really to listen to listen on a big scope with those engagement surveys is important. After that, sometimes we need something different than that. Oh, my gosh. Sometimes we need to look at a smaller group. We need to maybe focus on our sales team or something of that nature and how can we do it on a smaller scope?
Kristin Noack | 00;06;59;21 - 00;07;27;24
Those one-on-one discussions, those stay interviews are incredibly important and those should be at a frequency that gives you good information without waiting too long, which happens often. So you can get that information to your leadership, to your organization, and that communication to the employees. Stay interviews is another thing MRA does with intention. They're able to help organizations in numbers to focus on those smaller scope areas that they want to look at.
Kristin Noack | 00;07;27;28 - 00;07;32;18
That satisfaction, that quantitative and qualitative aspect, right?
Sophie Boler | 00;07;32;19 - 00;08;00;21
I think gathering all that feedback from employees is super important, whether that's in the conversation or, like you said, engagement survey, I mean, anything really helps, but the employee experience really helps to also improve employee retention. So what are your top three must-have strategies that an employee should really have to create a good employee experience that will lead to employee retention?
Kristin Noack | 00;08;00;26 - 00;08;28;18
Well, I think it's a great question. I think there's probably more than three strategies for that. So let's talk about some that we could focus in on. One thing that is really important to understand for an employee is how are they received their messages and how are things perceived? Take a step back on that. The candidate experience, when you were looking at the organizations you were actually looking at online, right now you are focusing on what is the organization looks like.
Kristin Noack | 00;08;28;26 - 00;08;49;14
That's the branding. And I think sometimes leaders don't know what their brand is. And I think if we can understand how an employee gets engaged, you need to understand how you can communicate with your employees, whether they be that candidate, that employee now or that exiting employee. What did you? What is your brand? How are you communicating? What messages are you sending?
Kristin Noack | 00;08;49;19 - 00;09;08;25
So I think my strategy one is to know who you are. You go back out and try and become that candidate again and see what your organization is like going through the process or potentially just talking to your leaders and talking to your employees. Again, those town halls, things of that nature, how are they understanding  your organization? Is it as you expect it?
Kristin Noack | 00;09;09;03 - 00;09;33;02
Do you need to make adjustments? Another strategy is really to consider the experience. There are those four key areas we talk about the lifestyles and those are the employee journey, which is that culture. Are you staying true to your culture strategy? Look at what your culture is. Identify your culture. Ask questions about your culture. Is it matching what you think it is leadership?
Kristin Noack | 00;09;33;02 - 00;09;58;19
Is leadership being communicated? Are they being supportive? Is a collaborative focusing on that technology? Do you have up to date technology as you can have for your employees, or is there something more you could do? Many organizations will do surveys or other types of conversations and come up with a list of points of things that are really important in technology rises to the top.
Kristin Noack | 00;09;58;19 - 00;10;20;11
Maybe that's something that is a strategy that can work with moving forward and present to their play base. And then there's the workspace, the workplace. Work life balance. You said it yourself in conversations previously and you probably agreed today. What is there for flexibility or benefits? Again, these things are not just for a candidate. They're for an employee.
Kristin Noack | 00;10;20;18 - 00;10;22;09
They're throughout the whole lifecycle.
Sophie Boler | 00;10;22;15 - 00;10;39;24
Right. And we have to bring a budget at some point. Right. So what happens if an employer doesn't feel like they have a big enough budget to really support a good employee experience? What are some practical but inexpensive, inexpensive options for them?
Kristin Noack | 00;10;40;02 - 00;11;13;11
Good question. Making things happen doesn't have to be expensive. That's the really good news. So one of the tools I often refer to as something that MRA has in our toolkit, if you're a member and the website, it's called the Employee Experience Assessment Tool. It is a fantastic way to take a quick look at the comprehensive checklist in the state of your organization and talk about that journey that's a candidate to be engaging with the employee, the best in the employee, growing even to the exit.
Kristin Noack | 00;11;13;17 - 00;11;29;05
It actually touches on this tool kind upon all those areas. Yes. No capacity to saying, how are we doing? It's a quick meter. It's a thought process and the journey, are we missing any meeting points that are really important to our organization and there's no cost.
Sophie Boler | 00;11;30;20 - 00;11;45;12
So, well, you just touched on the exiting of an employee and unfortunately this does come with the employee experience as well in an employee leaves the company. And so this should also be a positive experience right?
Kristin Noack | 00;11;46;10 - 00;12;09;07
It should be a positive experience. But let's be honest, it tends to be emotional right out of the gate whether or not it's your top performer or someone you might have been expecting could potentially be exiting the organization. It's emotional but that isn't the time to get emotional. Now is the time to investigate and that's something I'm really passionate about with organizations, especially in this market.
Kristin Noack | 00;12;09;21 - 00;12;34;20
And that recruiting side is the other half of my career in recruiting and retention. We get calls all the time. I need to find people. So why are you losing people? Have you investigated? Have you done discussions? If there's an organization out there that hasn't done it yet, have those conversations and you've had the time when someone leaves we want to catch them before they leave with good, deep conversations as best as you can.
Kristin Noack | 00;12;34;28 - 00;12;58;13
That's the exit interview situation. Sometimes I'm hearing it's really hard for organization to do that on their own. They feel that it's either not the right time you place or are engaging as much, and sometimes it just as training for leadership in how to conduct an exit discussion. That's where MRA can come in. Our exit interview team is great at doing that.
Kristin Noack | 00;12;58;13 - 00;13;30;17
We hear those discussions, we’re considered a neutral third party, so that works out fantastic. But it's important to figure out what happened in that employee journey by going through and investigating at this exit stage. And then what you do with that, I think is very important. This is what I feel is that positive Sophie I think what you need to do at that point is understand can we make adjustments within your organization, are you finding with someone that it is an onboarding situation, is it something we could have done more from the frontend--just simple better messaging.
Kristin Noack | 00;13;30;27 - 00;13;52;05
Is it a leadership or supervisory situation? DO you need more supervisory training or is it a circumstance that you really can't manage at this time? Because maybe it's not a possibility of the individual being able to experience what they're looking for, your organization, and then you have to take them forward from there. But positively, you should get some good results from discussion.
Sophie Boler | 0;13;52;12 - 00;14;04;12
Absolutely. And just talking about this whole process, this smooth and rewarding employee experience process really gives back time to managers. So how is that true?
Kristin Noack | 00;14;05;16 - 00;14;25;19
Well, it's true because if you can do this journey well, you can manage to touch all those points in employee’s engagement with you and your culture and your communication, your technology and the work life balance. You're going to be in position actively to recruit less and retain more.
Sophie Boler | 00;14;27;03 - 00;14;36;17
Good answer. But because a good employee experience can really differ for each employee, how do you address all the other needs?
Kristin Noack | 00;14;37;07 - 00;15;05;04
You have to do it in pieces. You have to look at where the important things are and really understand what to start with. And maybe that requires the chat with MRA to see where you're at and what to focus in on. But at least start with communication. You don't know if you don't ask. And having those potential one on ones with your employees at your supervisory level and lower level and then communicating that up and broadcasting and out to your town halls.
Kristin Noack | 00;15;05;26 - 00;15;25;19
See, that's really crux of moving forward and doing that and has to reach your employee base right now and probably could be Zoom meetings. It could be regular email communications. But just because there's a difference in where your employees are, don't shy away from communicating with them.
Sophie Boler | 00;15;25;26 - 00;15;32;20
Right. Exactly. And how does senior leadership play a role in the whole employee experience process?
Kristin Noack | 00;15;33;07 - 00;16;03;03
I think senior leadership needs to be the one in the forefront of that brand and need to be the one in the forefront of the communication of the organizations through certain type of things we've done here that have shown that individuals will move an organization because of it's leadership. So is your senior leadership with you? Are they understanding what the voices are of the employee and do they understanding the employee experience, having them do a little bit of that work to their viewpoint?
Sophie Boler | 00;16;03;29 - 00;16;11;14
Absolutely. Well, we're running out of time, but do you have any last thoughts that you can give our followers today?
Kristin Noack | 00;16;12;23 - 00;16;28;11
I think the biggest that I would leave you with is the journey. It's truly about the employee's journey, whether it be the candidate, the employee, the access. You need to know what your journey is providing and it just in order to retain.
Sophie Boler | 00;16;29;21 - 00;16;58;02
Absolutely. And like Jim mentioned, the employee experience never ends. It's an ongoing thing. And it will never end. But like I said, that takes up all of our time for the day, unfortunately. But Kristen, thank you so much for joining us today. And listeners, I hope you enjoyed talking to Kristen, too, but we have added Kristen's LinkedIn profile to the show notes as well as a couple great resources that she's given us.
Sophie Boler | 00;16;58;11 - 00;17;16;27
So make sure to check those out and make sure to connect with her, too. Shoot her a message. She’d love to chat, I'm sure. Absolutely. All right. We will be continuing the conversation next week. But thank you again, Kristen. I had fun talking to you and we will see you again soon.
Kristin Noack | 00;17;17;03 - 00;17;17;17
Thank you.
Sophie Boler | 00;17;18;06 - 00;17;40;13
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform and as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.

How Successful Companies Make the Most of Their Onboarding

In this episode with James McDevitt, Vice President of Human Resources at MRA, we talk pre-boarding, onboarding, and orientation best practices! James shares real-life stories and advice from his 25+ year HR experience and proves his belief that a company’s most valuable assets are its people!
Listen to Discover:
According to the most recent Gallup Poll, about 1/3 of U.S. employees are engaged in their work and workplace. How can you increase this number? 
Effective onboarding does not end on day 3 or day four. It's a continuous process. And this is where companies who succeed build cultures where personal development and continuous improvement is part of the culture. 
The pre-boarding, onboarding, and orientation processes need to be individualized to the new hire, their role, their interests, and goals. 
Let's Connect:
James' LinkedIn Profile  
Transcript:
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;05
Hello, hello, everybody and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now, it’s time to THRIVE!
 
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;17 - 00;00;49;16
Well, with all the conversation around employee engagement and retention, we thought it would be a great idea to really tackle that topic today on our podcast and follow up to Jim Morgan’s episode last week on candidate experience. So according to the most recent Gallup Poll, about one-third of U.S. employees are engaged in their work at their workplace.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;00;49;16 - 00;01;17;01
And we’re talking a pretty low percentage. So one way that we can increase employee engagement from the very start is by really focusing on the employee experience with a strong onboarding program. And in fact, according to another study from TalentWise, 91 percent of employees stick around for at least a year when organizations have an efficient onboarding process, which is a pretty large percentage.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;01;17;14 - 00;01;49;29
So today I’m joined with James McDevitt. He’s our vice president of human resources here at MRA, and is an absolute pleasure to work with. But James comes with a ton of experience, having worked in HR for more than 25 years and really has a lot of operations experience working for both large and small companies. But while James has transformed human resource organizations into a strategic vehicle for growth, he really holds the belief that a company’s most valuable asset are their people.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;01;50;24 - 00;01;54;09
So welcome, James. Let’s talk onboarding process.
 
James McDevitt | 00;01;54;09 - 00;01;55;22
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;01;56;00 - 00;02;07;24
Absolutely. But before we get to the actual onboarding talk, we should first talk about the preboarding stage. So do you have any suggestions for preboarding a brand-new employee?
 
James McDevitt | 00;02;07;25 - 00;02;32;15
Absolutely. And as you said, employees are the most valuable assets of any organization. Without the people, there is no product, no services, no nothing. So it’s really important that employers do everything they can to engage, to motivate, retain, and develop their employees. And as you suggested, that really starts even before they start. Pre-boarding is an important part of the process.
 
James McDevitt | 00;02;32;15 - 00;02;50;27
It’s often overlooked. And sometimes not a lot of thought goes into what happens before they start. But a lot of it happens after they start. So what tends to happen? People are not sure when they’re supposed to start. They’re not sure what the dress code is. They’re not sure of where they’re supposed to be. They turn up at the wrong location.
 
James McDevitt | 00;02;51;07 - 00;03;12;28
They turn up at the wrong time, and suddenly you’re off to a bad start. You really are. So I think it’s really important to put a process in place where you recognize the importance of pre-boarding. So for example, make sure you call and speak to the candidate now that you hire before they start. Make sure they know where they’re going.
 
James McDevitt | 00;03;12;29 - 00;03;30;08
Make sure they know what time they’re supposed to be there. Make sure they know what the dress code is, but also plan ahead. Have a backup. What happens if the person is supposed to call, who would ideally be the hiring manager as a really important step in building that relationship? But what if the hiring manager gets sick?
 
James McDevitt | 00;03;31;20 - 00;03;51;00
Is there someone else there that can make the call? Likewise, on day one, even before the orientation starts, they’re supposed to arrive and meet somebody. What if that person got stuck in traffic? You should have a backup plan to make sure that whatever happens, that the new hire, the new employee is clearly communicated with.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;03;51;09 - 00;04;11;04
Right. And I think just speaking to my experience for the pre-boarding process, I really like that my team really provided a good idea of what my first week would look like before I even started. So it made me more comfortable to know, “Hey, on Monday, I’m going to do this, on Tuesday, I’m going to do this. This is what I should wear.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;04;11;12 - 00;04;21;12
This is what time I should show up.” And also just getting welcomed by other people not even on your team. It was really comforting.
 
James McDevitt | 00;04;21;13 - 00;04;33;08
Absolutely. And another good practice is sometimes companies will have like a “swag bag” of stuff on day one. That’s pretty cool. How cool would it be to get that before you even start?
 
Sophie Boler | 00;04;33;11 - 00;04;35;00
Get you a little energized before.
 
James McDevitt | 00;04;35;18 - 00;04;40;28
Get excited, get the swag to them before they even start. They’re going to be excited to be there.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;04;41;06 - 00;04;59;12
And then they can bring their swag onto their desk too. But let’s go into more of the onboarding part. And this is the time to really make a good first impression. So, onboarding is way more than just the workspace that they’re at. So, tell us what’s on your onboarding checklist?
 
James McDevitt | 00;04;59;28 - 00;05;18;22
So I think the first and most important thing is to make the employee welcome, to make them feel welcome. To make them feel like they’ve made the right decision and made the right choice. The reality is that employees today can choose to go, frankly, almost anywhere they want to go. So you have to convince them they’ve make the right choice.
 
James McDevitt | 00;05;18;22 - 00;05;42;12
It’s really important you make that impression on the first day. As I said earlier, make sure someone is there to greet them. Someone’s expecting them. You don’t want to turn up and there’s somebody in reception. “Hi, I’m James McDevitt.” So make sure that we’re expecting them. Make sure there’s a backup in case the person expecting them is not there. One thing I remember when I came over to the States a few years ago now,
 
James McDevitt | 00;05;42;12 - 00;05;59;18
that has stuck with me ever since, on the first day the CEO of the company, who’s also a co-founder of the company, I am very confident saying would have been a very busy man, took the time out on his first day to come and meet all the new hires and speak to us for at least 30 minutes
 
James McDevitt | 00;06;00;02 - 00;06;27;09
about the history of the company, why the company was founded, and the culture of the company. That happened over 20 years ago, and I still remember that conversation. So not just the hiring manager, the hiring manager’s key, if possible, if the hiring manager’s in the same location, they should be there. But get senior leadership, get the CEO if possible. If the CEO is not available, some other senior leader that can talk about the company, they can talk about the history of the company and where this person fits in.
 
James McDevitt | 00;06;28;11 - 00;06;40;03  
As I said, you really want to make this feel welcome, this person feel welcome. You want to get them pumped that they made the right decision. And they’re excited and looking forward, not just to day one, but to day two, day three, and day four.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;06;40;12 - 00;06;52;28
Absolutely. And you kind of gave us a little overview on your checklist, but do you have any examples of a really bad onboarding experience that companies can kind of listen to, to stray away from?
 
James McDevitt | 00;06;53;00 - 00;07;14;26
Sure. There’s unfortunately, there’s more than one I can think of. I think a lot of companies fall into this trap as well, where day one tends to be the “HR day” and you stick them in a room with very competent HR professionals. But they’re going through a relatively dry topic in terms of benefits of accidental death and dismemberment insurance and making sure you fill out the forms.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;07;14;26 - 00;07;15;06
All the fun stuff.
 
James McDevitt | 00;07;15;06 - 00;07;36;13
All the fun stuff. And if you’re in an environment, like in a manufacturing environment, you maybe have to go sit through a safety presentation and you can see that the new hires and the new employees are literally switching off and thinking, “Why am I here?” So sometimes you have to do that. You have to go through benefits, you have to go through safety, but make it fun, make it exciting.
 
James McDevitt | 00;07;36;26 - 00;08;01;01
Another example from the same company when I came to the U.S., the other example from the orientation I remember the payroll manager came and was explaining how you get paid and that’s obviously a good thing. But again, some of that is a little bit of a detail in terms of timesheets and things like that. But she made it fun and exciting and as a payroll manager, she had a little PayDay candy bars and she would ask questions.
 
James McDevitt | 00;08;01;12 - 00;08;04;29
And if you got a question right, she threw a PayDay candy bar at you.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;08;05;10 - 00;08;07;11
That’s an incentive.
 
James McDevitt | 00;08;07;11 - 00;08;32;12
So make it fun. Make it exciting. Don’t make it boring. You got to fill out the I-9. You got to fill out benefits, paperwork, but make it fun. Make it interesting. And another example of where it didn’t really work was someone I know traveled a long way, actually relocated to the position. And on the first day, this person was an attorney and she was all dressed up, all smart, as you would expect an attorney to dress.
 
James McDevitt | 00;08;33;01 - 00;08;52;23
And she showed up to her office. And that’s a good start. Her manager wasn’t there and she wasn’t quite sure and her laptop didn’t work, and she ended up having to scramble around under the table in her best clothes, trying to figure out how to plug her laptop in and thinking, “Why am I here?” So those are simple things that can be avoided.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;08;53;08 - 00;09;06;24
Absolutely. And I mean, nowadays we see a lot more remote employees. So what about the remote employees? How do you apply that same process that you just talked about if a new employee is remote?
 
James McDevitt | 00;09;06;24 - 00;09;30;18
It’s the same principles. It’s harder. It’s easier if you’re all in the same place. And it’s obviously harder if you’re not, but it’s basically the same principle: Get them pumped up, get them excited, make them feel like they’ve made the right decision. If it’s possible to get them into another company location near where they live, try to do your best to do that and have somebody greet them and have lunch with them and all the rest of it.
 
James McDevitt | 00;09;31;05 - 00;09;56;21
If that’s not feasible, can you get their technology to them before their first day? Can you get a laptop to them, for example? Give them instructions on how to log in, work with the IT team to get their email on, all the connections set up so that if you are doing orientation sessions on day one, Zoom is a wonderful technology at times, but Zoom can be our friend on orientation day with remote workers.
 
James McDevitt | 00;09;56;21 - 00;10;23;03
Get them involved, make sure the hiring manager, again with the pre-boarding, the hiring manager’s spoken to them already. They’re building that relationship. Get them to speak with their teams. Even though they may be sitting in their living room or wherever they’re sitting, make them included, make them feel included. One good practice that a lot of companies do is have lunch with the new hire on day one and wherever possible, maybe get the team involved.
 
James McDevitt | 00;10;23;03 - 00;10;42;25
Again, if you’re all in the same location, that’s not too difficult. If you’re in different locations, that’s hard. So think ahead. Maybe send them a food delivery voucher, coupon, gift card in advance so they can order lunch so they can be having lunch on the company while at the same time everybody else is having lunch. Again, it’s the same thing.
 
James McDevitt | 00;10;42;25 - 00;10;48;16
Make them feel they belong, make them feel part of the culture. Make them feel like they’ve made the right decision.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;10;48;21 - 00;11;02;24
Right. And I mean, we’ve covered a couple of different terms so far—pre-boarding, onboarding—and now we’re going to go a little bit into orientation. So could you talk a little bit about the difference between onboarding and orientation?
 
James McDevitt | 00;11;02;24 - 00;11;26;19
Sure.  Now those two phrases can be a little interchangeable sometimes, but technically orientation is really about the initial welcome on the first day or the first couple of days that you have the new hire becoming the new employee and becoming the regular employee, so to speak. So it’s really the initial welcome. And the goal there, as I said, is to make them think they’ve made the right decision by choosing you.
 
James McDevitt | 00;11;27;03 - 00;11;42;29
Onboarding is more of a longer term process where you’re really helping them learn how to do their job, how to be effective in their job, how to build relationships, cross-functionally on project teams, etc., etc. So onboarding is a longer, broader process. Orientation is the first impressions.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;11;43;05 - 00;11;59;15
Okay, thank you. And what is the best way to really help a new hire integrate into the organization? How do you teach them about your company’s core values and mission and history without plopping down a bunch of papers and saying, “Read”?
 
James McDevitt | 00;11;59;19 - 00;12;18;02
Yeah, absolutely. And that you just highlighted the one thing I don’t think you should do, although these days, people don’t necessarily give you a file and a bunch of papers. They say, “There’s a website, go read” or “Go watch that online video and I’ll come back at lunchtime again.” Again, how exciting is that for the new hire?
 
James McDevitt | 00;12;18;02 - 00;12;43;18
Are they are they pumped to be here? Because I spent 2 hours watching online videos or reading forms online? No, talk to them. You should have a plan. You should have a “who does that person need to know” to be successful in their role? What relationships do they need to start working on? Those are all important. So have a plan, but make sure the plan is flexible enough so that it’s individualized by the person or the role.
 
James McDevitt | 00;12;43;18 - 00;13;03;01
In some organizations, it’s important that you know this person and other organizations, it’s important you know that person. Don’t just have people meet everybody for the sake of meeting everybody. So have a plan. When you talk about the culture of the organization and the values of the organization, make sure you yourself are demonstrating those values so they can actually see them in action.
 
James McDevitt | 00;13;03;01 - 00;13;31;22
If you’re in an environment where it’s very customer, very member focused, you show them how that works in reality. Give them examples, talk to members of the team, demonstrate those values in action. As I said, meet the team, meet the key stakeholders. Appreciate some of the generational differences that exist out there, but really be inclusive, be positive, and again, get them jazzed to be there as part of the team.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;13;31;22 - 00;13;39;18
Great. And I mean, this might differ depending on what company you’re at, but how long should a typical onboarding process take?
 
James McDevitt | 00;13;40;00 - 00;14;02;16
So I think that’s a trick question because the answer is, I don’t think it ever ends. Again, orientation is you’re setting yourself up for success within the organization. Onboarding, you’re now going to take that to the next level on how to do your job. But your job evolves. You evolve as a person. You develop, you’re continually, hopefully continually, learning, doing new things.
 
James McDevitt | 00;14;02;25 - 00;14;09;10
You’re being trained on how to do new things. You’re learning how to do new things. Effectively, onboarding goes on continually ...
 
Sophie Boler | 00;14;10;04 - 00;14;11;04
Forever.
 
James McDevitt | 00;14;11;24 - 00;14;37;17
It frankly does. Yes. I mean, what we’re effectively doing, if you think about it, and if you do it properly, you spend all that time and effort hiring somebody, you spend all that time and effort getting them on board. You find, you spend all that time and effort training them how to do a job. And then if you stop, if you just stop, that person will become disengaged.
 
James McDevitt | 00;14;37;17 - 00;15;00;12
They will become ineffective. They will leave the organization. And you have to do all of it again. You are effectively, good practice is to effectively continually to re-recruit your new hire as if you’re trying to get them pumped up, as if you’re trying to get them to do their job well and trying to get them engaged and want to be there and want to get out of bed in the morning and come to work, so it doesn’t end. If the employee doesn’t feel the love, then you know what?
 
James McDevitt | 00;15;00;12 - 00;15;01;26
Someone else will get them to feel the love.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;15;02;20 - 00;15;15;19
And you mentioned generational differences quickly in your last statement, and there’s been a lot of talk about generational differences. So how does this really come into play in the onboarding process?
 
James McDevitt | 00;15;15;27 - 00;15;46;18
Sure. So, as you said, generational differences, perhaps for the first time, significant generational differences in place across society with the boomers and the Gen Xers and the millennials, sometimes it’s hard to keep up with them. I think the important thing to remember, though, is, is that people are different, people are individual and whatever strategy you have, it should be individualized to the person. As I mentioned before, have a plan, have a structure, but make sure it’s individualized to that person.
 
James McDevitt | 00;15;46;26 - 00;16;12;12
I think some of the key elements are a strong communications plan, making sure that you communicate clearly with the new hire, the employee so that they understand, give them the opportunity to ask questions. Don’t just tell them; communication is two-way. Have an inclusive culture, so they feel part of the team. And I think, something I haven’t really mentioned before, but I think the role of the hiring manager is really key and I think lots of studies out there show that the relationship between the hiring manager and employee is crucial.
 
James McDevitt | 00;16;12;26 - 00;16;28;18
The hiring manager needs to be part of the pre-boarding, needs to be part of the onboarding, needs to be part of the orientation. And they really need to build that relationship with the new hire. And if that is successful, regardless of the generation, I think I think it will be a successful experience.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;16;29;15 - 00;16;42;00
So what are your thoughts on having a new hire get involved in a big project right away? Does that give them a sense of responsibility right off the bat or should you steer away from that? What are your thoughts on that?
 
James McDevitt | 00;16;42;05 - 00;17;02;27
I think I’ll go back to the individual role of the individual again. I think it has to be individualized. There will be some cases where you have someone who has got the skills, got the experience, got the knowledge and can jump straight, in and you have other people that may not be there yet and that’s okay. And you will know that when you hire them through the process, and people get hired to do different things.
 
James McDevitt | 00;17;03;12 - 00;17;20;00
So I would say it needs to be down to the individual and I would say the key is to set the new hire up to succeed. Do not set them up to fail. So if they don’t have the skills and the capabilities and experience to take on the big project, take it slow.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;17;20;15 - 00;17;39;18
Okay, good advice. So here at MRA, we assign mentors to all of our new hires and they’re really there to just kind of be a leader and for the new hires to go to if they have questions and be a role model. So what are some suggestions you have for mentors of new hires?
 
James McDevitt | 00;17;40;01 - 00;18;02;06
Sure. So I think when we talk about mentors, there’s really two roles that can really help a new hire come on board and be effective quickly. There’s the mentor and there’s the buddy. The buddy is a more informal process. Someone that can help answer all the silly questions like, “Where’s the bathrooms and what time do, you know,…”
 
James McDevitt | 00;18;02;06 - 00;18;10;02
“My boss said this. What did he or she really mean to say?” Particularly someone with local accents and variations. “What did he say? I don’t quite understand what he said!”
 
James McDevitt | 00;18;12;13 - 00;18;36;15
All those silly questions that you may not want to ask your manager. And that’s, you know, that’s fine. So someone that goes to lunch with you, someone that explains, “Oh, this is what we did and this is how we do it,” someone that you can bounce thoughts off, that’s really important. The role of a buddy has been proved to show a real success in terms of transitioning somebody in the workplace, talk about being inclusive, talk about being part of a team, a buddy can really help that process go through.
 
James McDevitt | 00;18;36;15 - 00;19;05;16
A mentor is probably more of a formal process and traditionally tends to be someone maybe a bit more senior, is more structured, someone that maybe has more experience in the role, that can coach and guide maybe someone with less experience, and help them with career advice and suggestions on the role. And a buddy isn’t necessarily someone you would go and ask, “Well I tried to do the job this way and it didn’t work. What do you think? How could it be done differently?”
 
James McDevitt | 00;19;05;16 - 00;19;21;27
Whereas a mentor could play that role. “So I have this idea. We did it in my last company and it really worked really well there. I don’t want to go to my manager and say this right now because I don’t know if it’s worked and failed or if it’s been done here before or not.”
 
James McDevitt | 00;19;22;08 - 00;19;44;10
A mentor can help be a guide with some of those questions. So I think both have a have a role to play. And previous organizations, we’ve certainly invested a lot of time in the buddy system, for example, and we hand-selected individuals and even trained them in some ways on how to be a buddy and what to look for and understand adult learning and how do people learn.
 
James McDevitt | 00;19;44;10 - 00;19;51;14
And some people are very visual, some people are not. And that’s all important to be a successful buddy.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;19;52;02 - 00;20;06;06
And I think the buddy system and mentor system has really helped me personally too, as a newer employee. But what are some ways that a company can provide this continuous onboarding support that you mentioned?
 
James McDevitt | 00;20;06;07 - 00;20;31;06
So as I said, onboarding doesn’t end on day three or day four. It’s really continuous. And this is where companies who succeed build cultures where personal development and continuous improvement is part of the culture, where the manager sits down with the employee on a regular basis and not just once a year because it’s annual review time, because someone in HR sent them a form and said, “We have to fill this form out.”
 
James McDevitt | 00;20;31;20 - 00;20;51;25
No, it’s a real dynamic process where we sit down as a team, as teams, sit down with individuals to say, “Okay, how’s it going? Was it working? Last time we met, we were going to do this. Did it work? Did it not work? What did you learn? How would you do it differently?” Asking the questions, “What help do you need? What do you want to do?”
 
James McDevitt | 00;20;52;04 - 00;21;17;06
Really important questions. In my role in the past, managers have come to me and said, “Well, I think so-and-so would be a really good person for this role.” And I said, “Well, have you talked to them about it?” No, that’s crazy talk. Why would I do that?” But in a culture of personal development and continuous improvement, people would know what does Sophie want to do in the next couple of years.
 
James McDevitt | 00;21;17;06 - 00;21;37;05
Where do her interests lie? Is she looking to build on the creative side, is she looking to go into management roles? Is she looking to change functions? I think that’s all really important and I think successful personal development, continuous improvement programs are again, it’s not just about going on a formal training class.
 
James McDevitt | 00;21;37;15 - 00;21;42;16
I’m going to send somebody who wants to be a manager, I’m going to send them to a manager class. Yeah. It doesn’t quite work like that.
 
James McDevitt | 00;21;43;06 - 00;22;07;21
Much, much more than that. So, so talk about on-the-job learning. Talk about skills and experience that you can pick up on the job. If you’re looking to go into management or supervision, maybe you can take a leadership role in a project, cross-functional project. What we’re going to ask you to take a leadership role here where you’re working a cross-function maybe it’s in a matrix environment where no one person can say yes, but five people can say no.
 
James McDevitt | 00;22;08;10 - 00;22;31;12
Work on those skills—meetings, working, pulling meetings together, agendas together, keeping meetings on time. Those are all important skills that you need to learn once you’re in management. So broaden the mind, broaden your experience. In some organizations, they’re set up in such a way that you can actually move between functions quite easily.
 
James McDevitt | 00;22;31;12 – 00;22;53;09
And MRA, for example, is one of those as an HR organization, we have a lot of HR professionals and we have a lot of people in blended roles. They might do some compensation, they might do some recruitment, they might do some learning and development, and a lot of those roles are built on the fact that we’ve had conversations with those members of the team who’ve expressed an interest—
 
James McDevitt | 00;22;53;09 - 00;23;09;22
“I’m interested in doing this”—and we figure out, does that work? Does that person have the right skill set, and if so, with a bit of coaching and mentoring, to your point, we can make it happen. So I think the key is regular one-on-ones, proactive discussions on what it is you want to do, what help you need to get there.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;23;10;20 - 00;23;29;26
And everybody wants to be an employer of choice. And I think a good onboarding and orientation process is one way to be that employer of choice. So you really want a new hire to go home after their first day of work and share their day with their family, their friends, and be like, “Wow, this is awesome. I had a great first day.”
 
Sophie Boler | 00;23;30;02 - 00;23;55;04
And that will encourage other future candidates hopefully to join the company as well. But on the opposite side, if they go home and complain, nobody’s going to want to join that company. They’re not going to want to come back. So like you said, these processes are key and it’s all about leaving a good first impression. So do you have any last impressions that you want to leave our listeners with today?
 
James McDevitt | 00;23;55;05 - 00;24;13;29
Absolutely. And you made the point that a bad orientation or a bad onboarding, certainly these days, employees will not stick around. They don’t stick around. The studies are out there. The statistics are out there. The results are in. People don’t stick around. So what can you do to make them stick around? And we’ve talked about some of the ideas.
 
James McDevitt | 00;24;13;29 - 00;24;27;25
I think at the end of the day, it’s a bit of an old cliche with an employer of choice, but especially these days, I think it’s absolutely true. Employees have a choice. When they get out of bed in the morning, they have a choice. They can come to work for you or frankly, they can go and work for somebody else.
 
James McDevitt | 00;24;28;03 - 00;24;46;18
Our role is to get them to make the choice to come and work for us on day one and on day two and on day three and in year four, and in year five. That’s why it’s a continual process, it’s a continual recruitment. We want them engaged. We want them to feel part of the team.
 
James McDevitt | 00;24;46;18 - 00;24;48;08
We want them to come into work in the morning.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;24;48;17 - 00;25;10;17
Absolutely. Well, thank you for all of your advice today. I mean, it was great. And thank you for being on the show, too, and really continuing the candidate experience talk and onboarding process. It’s something that’s never going away, like you said, but something organizations really need to stay on top of. So we will be continuing this conversation next week.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;25;11;13 - 00;25;34;15
But if you have any further questions or just want to get connected with James, we have linked his LinkedIn profile in the show notes below along with some other resources that you can take a look at. But James, thank you again. I had fun. It was good talking to you. But other than that, we will see you next week!
 
OUTRO | 00;25;35;01 - 00;25;54;06
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

The Changed Candidate Experience Is the Next Big Thing

In this episode with MRA Vice President of Workforce Strategies, Jim Morgan, we begin the employee experience conversation by talking about how the candidate experience has changed, and how organizations need to adapt to that change! We cover the initial candidate contact point, interview best practices, and individualizing your candidate process. 
Listen to Discover:
Leading up to the pandemic, we were starting to see the labor shortage. And now coming out of it, it is here in full force. 
It's a shift in mindset: As much as organizations might want to say, "Oh, you're lucky to have a job with us", the truth is that's been turned around. And so it's "We'd be lucky to have you."
Have someone go through your candidate experience, whether that's you, your kid or just an employee. Know what the process looks like.
Bios:
Jim Morgan, Vice President, Workforce Strategies 
Let's Connect:
Jim's LinkedIn Profile 
Transcript:
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;04Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. Now, it's time to thrive.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;18 - 00;00;46;27Hello, everybody. I am here with Jim Morgan. He's our Workforce Strategies Vice President here at MRA. And a lot of you are probably familiar with Jim already, as he does a lot of traveling on the key points of the talent shortage issue. And he's really been working on this issue for the last 30 years, which is pretty impressive.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;47;22 - 00;01;02;12But Jim really makes organizations take a step back and think about their candidate experience plans and how they should be adapting to the current times. So thanks for joining me on the show today, Jim. I'm really excited to talk about this issue.
Jim Morgan | 00;01;02;21 - 00;01;04;24It's my pleasure to be in front of MRA Nation.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;04;28 - 00;01;18;16Oh, of course. But I think we'll just dive into the first question and really talk about the candidate experience as a whole. So could you just tell me what candidate experience means and what it all includes?
Jim Morgan | 00;01;18;20 - 00;01;40;13Sure. You know, really, as you're trying to find talent, that begins with the first contact that you have with whomever your candidate might be. And so companies are spending a lot more time now from that first contact until the moment that they offer them a job and they hire them. Everything that happens between that first contact and the first day of work is really the candidate experience.
Jim Morgan | 00;01;40;26 - 00;02;04;01And we haven't had to really think about that in the past because if we had 200 people applying for a job, we just zipped them through and we took the best one possible. But now when you can't find anyone and you're in this competitive marketplace, that candidate experience really becomes a big deal. So if I'm trying to hire you, I want to make sure that from the moment we meet right up to when you start that you're thinking "this is a cool place to work.
Jim Morgan | 00;02;04;01 - 00;02;22;06And they seem like good people to work with. This is the kind of place I could see myself at." So it's become a new, new thing really for employers. I'd say, you know, leading up to the pandemic, we were starting to see the labor shortage. And now coming out of it, it is here in full force. So that's become kind of a big deal for us.
Sophie Boler | 00;02;22;12 - 00;02;30;11Absolutely. And I mean, well, it seems to me that there have been candidates for as long as there have been jobs. So can you tell us what's really different?
Jim Morgan | 00;02;30;11 - 00;02;45;06Yeah, and that's a really good point. People like well, you know, we've always been able to give candidates and give people a start. But I think the world has changed a little bit. So I'm going to stump the host here and turn some of these questions back on you a little bit. But okay, so you're looking for your first job. Where are you looking? How are you finding out, "hey, where do I want to go next?"
Sophie Boler | 00;02;50;16 - 00;03;02;27My first instinct would be to go on Google and search up the company I'm looking for, kind of take a look at their website, learn a little bit more on the company through their social media and website.
Jim Morgan | 00;03;03;08 - 00;03;11;14And what what would you be looking for that you'd think, "wow, that's that looks pretty cool. Yeah, I think I want to go there." What would strike you and leave an impression on you?
Sophie Boler | 00;03;12;12 - 00;03;28;15You know, I'd look at their mission from their website and I would just kind of look at their company culture as a whole, which I would probably get from social media and see if I would kind of fit in with that culture and see what professional opportunities they have for me there.
Jim Morgan | 00;03;28;15 - 00;03;34;09So are there certain types of pictures or videos or something that you would look at that you would say, Yeah, that's what I'm looking for?
Sophie Boler | 00;03;35;09 - 00;03;53;20I mean, I'm a big-picture person and video person myself. So I would say if it's a fun culture and I see that they do a lot of good work inside and outside of the company and they post about it frequently or, you know, feature things on their website that would have a good look for me. Yeah.
Jim Morgan | 00;03;53;25 - 00;04;06;09So now you've decided, "hey, this looks pretty good; I'm going to go find their careers page." So now I get to their careers page. I'm looking for a job that's of interest to me. What are you looking for in that in that job description or whatever they might have on?
Sophie Boler | 00;04;06;09 - 00;04;28;11I would be looking for probably at this point in time some flexibility. I mean, now we're kind of in a remote environment, hybrid situation. So I'd be looking for benefits that are for people more my age and things that I see as a benefit, not necessarily for everybody else, but. Yeah.
Jim Morgan | 00;04;28;28 - 00;04;29;02Okay.
Jim Morgan | 00;04;30;09 - 00;04;40;16All right. Yeah. So you found us. You found the job you're looking for. You make contact with us. How long do you think you should have to wait for me to get back to you?
Sophie Boler | 00;04;41;04 - 00;04;58;27Oh, gosh, well, I'm a little picky, so I would say a couple days at the most. I mean, anything after a couple of days, it makes me feel like, "oh, maybe they didn't look at my resume or maybe they're not interested. Why aren't they getting back to me?" You know, I think we expect more fast responses.
Jim Morgan | 00;04;59;15 - 00;05;14;06And just couple more and then I'm almost done with you. Okay, so now we said, okay, come on in. How long would you be willing to wait between first contact and starting the job? What's your expectation of how fast a company would move?
Sophie Boler | 00;05;14;06 - 00;05;20;15I would say a week would be a good time from first contact to being hired. 
Jim Morgan | 00;05;20;28 - 00;05;27;06And in that week, would you stop looking or are you are you still sort of searching around the world?
Sophie Boler | 00;05;27;13 - 00;05;44;01No, I would definitely keep searching. I mean, I wouldn't want to limit myself and put all my eggs in one basket. But yeah, definitely be searching for other opportunities. You never know what's going to come up. I mean, maybe the day before they want to hire me, I find another company, so.
Jim Morgan | 00;05;44;15 - 00;05;46;04Okay, well, that's helpful.
Sophie Boler | 00;05;46;05 - 00;05;46;13Did I pass?
Jim Morgan | 00;05;46;13 - 00;06;09;00You did pass. And you just freaked out every hiring manager that's probably listening today because they're thinking "A week? Why is she nuts? You know, we can't get that done that quickly." This is sort of the seismic shift in power that's taking place now that you really, you know, you hold all the cards, you can pretty much decide how fast you want it, whether you're going to keep looking, what else is going on out there.
Jim Morgan | 00;06;09;00 - 00;06;25;28And as a result, that's really what's causing a lot of the consternation for the employers is because you've grown up in a time where, you know, I don't know that much about your family, but I'll bet you've been in charge of your family just about since the day you were born. You decide when we go on vacation, you decide where we go on vacation.
Jim Morgan | 00;06;26;09 - 00;06;53;09And everybody is, you know, sort of complaining about all these kids, these kids, all these young kids. And I would say, well, these parents, you know, I mean, we're the ones that the baby boomers raised our kids saying, "you make all the decisions." And so you're you're used to being sort of in charge of everything. You've also walked into an Amazon world where you can order a pair of sunglasses and watch it go from the manufacturing line into the box end of the truck to the distribution center.
Jim Morgan | 00;06;53;16 - 00;07;09;28And you know exactly when it's going to show up. And that becomes the expectation of a candidate to say, "I want to know when I'm being interviewed. I want to know when you're going to hire. I want to know how quickly this whole thing is going to move." So in terms of candidate experience, those are all things that employers have not had to worry about in the past.
Jim Morgan | 00;07;10;07 - 00;07;21;11And your expectations, the speed at which especially younger generations move is a whole new dynamic for for companies. So as a result, this candidate experience has become a bigger deal.
Sophie Boler | 00;07;21;11 - 00;07;31;14Mhm absolutely. And I agree with everything you said, and it's a little scary, but this all seems like a newer phenomenon. So what can you tell us why that is?
Jim Morgan | 00;07;31;24 - 00;07;54;06You know, it's really a simple numbers game and it doesn't get much more complicated than that. We've got companies in Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin's 3000 employers. And I spend most of my time going around talking them about talent attraction, talent retention, how do you go and find people. And at the end of the day, in the upper Midwest and actually in the Northeast, people are not moving here.
Jim Morgan | 00;07;54;06 - 00;08;18;21This is not a destination for most folks. It's more west and it's more south. We're not having a lot of kids. And so you don't have a natural growth of people. We're not an international destination place. We have a lot of 25-year-olds that are deciding to go somewhere else. One thing we've learned in this whole thing is if you're a 25-year-old, where do you want to go where the other 25-year-olds are?
Jim Morgan | 00;08;18;22 - 00;08;38;08It's pretty simple. And we're not really a destination like Austin or the Carolinas or Portland. So all of those things are working against us. And so as a result, that's where we get to the point that we don't have very many bodies. And so now companies are having to adjust everything that they do in order to attract you.
Jim Morgan | 00;08;38;08 - 00;08;50;29And so they want you to stay here, they want you to work here, but they've got to compete for you now because you have everything at your fingertips. You can go wherever you want to go. So now we've got to work a little bit harder. And that's what's driven this, I think, to the to the forefront.
Sophie Boler | 00;08;51;06 - 00;09;09;18Right. So now moving into more of your employer recommendations and advice for how they can handle this kind of situation, what are you exactly telling employers to consider to make the candidate experience a positive one, make sure they're adapting to these times?
Jim Morgan | 00;09;09;20 - 00;09;27;14Yeah. I basically tell them to go back and listen to what you said in the first 3 minutes of the show, because those are really the answers. The first stop is going to be technologic. They're going to go to your website and they're probably going to do it from there forward. So one your website look online. How quickly can they navigate it?
Jim Morgan | 00;09;28;08 - 00;09;45;27You know, we joke that, oh, you know, if on your front page you have this 15-minute video of where the company started 120 years ago, nobody cares. And I don't mean that to sound rough. The companies that are very proud of their tradition. But there's one thing, especially about the younger generations, they're not going to watch a 50-minute video and there's a reason.
Jim Morgan | 00;09;45;27 - 00;10;05;21TikTok, as you know is 2 minutes, one minute, and there's a reason. Twitter is 240 characters or whatever it is, that it's got to be fast. They're also going to see how quickly they can navigate through your website because that's sort of the first indication of whether or not this is a company that gets it because, you know, you don't want to show up and you won't even know what this is.
Jim Morgan | 00;10;05;21 - 00;10;27;27But you show up and there's a Commodore 64 computer from RadioShack on your desk, that said, you know, you're out of there. So it's got to be quick. It's got to be personalized, it's got to be easy. And I think that's another one that a lot of HR people don't understand is, you know, there are software packages now that if you've got your resume on your laptop, you hit the easy button and it uploads your resume.
Jim Morgan | 00;10;27;27 - 00;10;51;14It puts the answers into the right questions. You know, it does everything. So if they're asking you to fill out a PDF and print it out and fax it in, that's a pretty good indication of that's not, you know, probably where you're going to end up. So that easiness, that quickness, all of that matters. And the last thing I think that they have to do is keep in mind that they're trying to wow you there, they're selling you, they need you to come work for them.
Jim Morgan | 00;10;51;26 - 00;11;07;16And so as much as they might want to say, "oh, you're lucky to have a job with us," the truth is that's been turned out. And so it's "we'd be lucky to have you." And that's a mindset that I'm not sure everybody's gotten yet. But it's is there a wow factor in this so that when you leave, you're like, that's the place that I want to go?
Sophie Boler | 00;11;07;27 - 00;11;27;29Mhm. I was just on LinkedIn earlier this morning, and I saw all of the easy job applicants you can do where you literally press the button and it uploads your resume. And that can be a little scary because then how many people are actually changing their resume in their cover letters for different jobs?
Jim Morgan | 00;11;27;29 - 00;11;46;14And I would say that's a good warning for people looking to that. Yeah, that's convenient as heck. But if you're not even taking the 2 minutes to say, does my resume even match what the job expectations are or do I have them in the right order? So at least what's most important to the company I put first right.
Jim Morgan | 00;11;46;14 - 00;11;47;24You can get pretty lazy with it.
Sophie Boler | 00;11;48;02 - 00;11;54;12Right? So how about the people doing the interviewing? I mean, how do they fit into this whole experience?
Jim Morgan | 00;11;55;06 - 00;12;14;20They've got to understand, especially, you know, I don't want to spend all the time on the younger generation of folks, but those are probably most of the people that are being interviewed. And they've got to understand your expectations. And again, it becomes this generational clash that, oh, you know, they want to work when they want, where they want, how they want and all of that.
Jim Morgan | 00;12;15;01 - 00;12;35;00And it's true. And people look at that as, oh, lack of work ethic or they're lazy and that's not got anything to do with it. It's been in your DNA. It's the way you've grown up. And so some of that has to come across. You said you're interested in flexibility and, you know, in a lot of places now if you walk in and, you know, you say, hey, I'd like to be able to work from home two days a week.
Jim Morgan | 00;12;35;07 - 00;12;52;09But companies certainly have the right to just say, no, you can't. But then they also need to know if there's going to be a certain part of the population that they're going to lose. So I think you've got to start those interviews armed with what do we have that's going to be attractive to this person so we can be selling while they're in here.
Jim Morgan | 00;12;52;29 - 00;13;10;24The second part of it is, I think you've got to be ready for the questions that you are going to ask. You know, you were looking, you wanted pictures, you wanted to see different things. What's the diversity of the company? Diversity in all different you know, whether that's age or ideas or color or sexuality, whatever it might be.
Jim Morgan | 00;13;11;00 - 00;13;27;17I want to go to a place where there's a lot of people, not everybody who looks just like me. Are we ready for that? What's the culture in this company? And if the people that are sitting there interviewing you are looking at each other like, geez, culture, I don't know quite how I describe it. Well, now you're in a little bit of trouble.
Jim Morgan | 00;13;27;17 - 00;13;44;08Again, younger people especially want to know what's my learning and development plan? Because if I start here, my expectation is in six months I'm going to be somewhere else and six months later I'll be somewhere. I'm not here for 30 years. You'll have me for 3 to 5. And I want to know what that looks like. How are you going to train me?
Jim Morgan | 00;13;44;08 - 00;13;59;27What is it that I need to get done? You know, what's my growth strategy here? Because you might be hiring me as a marketing assistant, but I want to be the marketing director and then the vice president of marketing. What is it going to take for me to get there? Lastly, I would say they got to be selling.
Jim Morgan | 00;14;00;04 - 00;14;22;28I mean, they really need to be selling that. They want you and they think you're important. They can always turn you down later. But for the purpose of the interview and bringing you in, they should have their A-game that says, we're trying to get as many people into this pipeline as we possibly can. So I think there's got to be that excitement, there's got to be the interest, and they got to be looking at it from the interviewee's point of view.
Sophie Boler | 00;14;23;11 - 00;14;36;06And you just talked about this, but are there any other differences that you can point out and what younger workers are really interested in or looking for that companies should be implementing in their candidate process?
Jim Morgan | 00;14;36;12 - 00;14;54;03I think, you know, the what you mentioned is a lot of it, the flexibility is a big one. You know, and I think what people have sort of lost in all of this is, you know, especially if you're 23, four or five years older, you've never worked in an office in a lot of cases. And now they're saying, come back to the office.
Jim Morgan | 00;14;54;04 - 00;15;09;19I like, I want to go to the office. Here's what I've been, you know, for three years. I think you have to prove yourself. I think, you know, that all goes with it. But if there isn't a reason to be there and it's something that people want, how do we begin to, you know, allowing that flexibility to take place?
Jim Morgan | 00;15;10;06 - 00;15;36;24I would look at the benefits that you're offering and what is it that a 25-year-old wants versus a 45-year-old versus a 65-year-old? And those are very different things. And we've been talking to companies quite a bit about if I've got $40,000 in student loans, that means more to me. If you would match that and help me pay for it, I want that more than I want a 401k; if I've got a couple of kids, for heaven's sakes, give me health care.
Jim Morgan | 00;15;37;07 - 00;16;11;27Right? I got kids and they get hurt. And I, you know, I got to have a place to go. And so those matter. And so you're even seeing companies now get to the point where they're using their benefits to differentiate themselves. So if I'm going after you and I'm looking at a younger workforce, I'm thinking about student loans, flexibility, the types of jobs that we have here, and then the opportunities that may not just be traditional learning and development, but it might be, hey, so if you want to sit in on our executive team meeting and learn more about, hey, there's this project that we want to get done, can you help us with it? We want you to serve on some volunteer boards and we'll that can be on company time. Go do that. Find the things that matter to people.
Sophie Boler | 00;16;21;06 - 00;16;36;04You know, I mean, Debbie, in her last episode, she talked about companies now offering pet insurance, which is just funny to me. But a lot of people really care about that. So you can see how employers are getting really creative with their benefits.
Jim Morgan | 00;16;36;04 - 00;16;53;00Yeah, and we've had lots of discussions about it; we had one guy the other day said, you know, we offer Netflix subscriptions to our employees and they value it more than their health care insurance. Yeah, but I mean, every time someone turns on their television and oh, my gosh, there's Netflix, it's like, oh, I can thank the ABC company for that.
Jim Morgan | 00;16;53;00 - 00;17;10;23So things like that, that mean a lot to people. Reward programs mean a lot to people. On the pet insurance, you mentioned cybersecurity and you know, all the different blocks and your own data and things like that. Again, they're trying to listen to their employees and say, you know, we'll offer A for one and we'll offer health insurance.
Jim Morgan | 00;17;10;23 - 00;17;24;24And that's kind of an expectation. But if we can start throwing in some of these things that really aren't even necessarily that expensive, but someone's thinking, well, that's pretty cool. I just got my subscription paid for. Yeah. So, you know, I think there's a lot of  that's going on as well.
Sophie Boler | 00;17;24;24 - 00;17;35;15Yeah. And we'll be discussing this employee experience topic the next couple of episodes, but do you have any last thoughts you can share with our MRA nation.
Jim Morgan | 00;17;36;14 - 00;18;03;23Our you know, I guess I would go with probably three things. One, I think we're still having a hard time in a lot of cases. And again, it's a lot of people who look like me. And for those of you on the radio, you know, 62 years old, not getting this yet and not accepting the fact that it's a it's a different world and different things are happening and people want to rush to judgment that, oh, it's a generational thing, or it's this or that or this will pass.
Jim Morgan | 00;18;04;09 - 00;18;20;13And, you know, I can pretty much tell you demographically, it's not going to pass. And generationally I don't I don't think it's going to pass. So we've got to we got to figure out some new strategies in terms of of how we're doing things. The second thing is, is, you know, you can say, well, I don't think we need to do this or whatever.
Jim Morgan | 00;18;20;13 - 00;18;46;07And that's true. You know, as an employer, you can decide to do whatever you want. But I would encourage you to look at what everybody around you is doing, what's your industry doing? What are the people in the industrial park that you're in doing? Because, you know, we're seeing just a ton of well, if you're offering $15 a week or $15 an hour here and they're offering 16 there and 17 there and 18 there, that person's just going to bump, you know, to wherever they're going.
Jim Morgan | 00;18;46;08 - 00;19;06;16So it becomes a matter of in this interview, what are we offering to you that you say, yeah, you know, it might be a dollar less an hour, but, boy, that flexibility are Friday, you know, dress down or cook out every Tuesday. All kinds of things might be, you know, what, someone was looking for. And they're they're willing to accept.
Jim Morgan | 00;19;06;16 - 00;19;28;27And I think the third one that I would say is, you know, candidates talk to each other. And if somebody has a bad experience at a company going through the interview process or they never called them back or they never heard from them again or whatever it might be, they talk to each other. And so if you're not providing a positive experience, it's not only that one person that you've talked to.
Jim Morgan | 00;19;28;27 - 00;19;47;05It's going to be several others. So at the end of the day, I guess if I could give one piece of advice, I would say, have someone go through your candidate experience, whether that's you, your kid or you just get an employee. Maybe that's new and say, we're going to go through this again, take notes. We want to know what this process looks like.
Jim Morgan | 00;19;47;29 - 00;20;03;05Have a hiring manager go through it and see what it is that you're doing because those people will be really honest with you and say, you know, first of all, I can't believe this happened. And second of all, I can't believe it took three weeks for this to happen. And third, I can't believe no one was here when I showed up for the interview.
Jim Morgan | 00;20;03;18 - 00;20;21;20Those are the kinds of things that are in this market that you can't have that type of misstep or you're going to be in trouble because now they're going to go someplace else. As you said at the beginning, even when you've maybe got a job interview or you've got a job offer, you're still looking. So, you know this game isn't over until we get there.
Jim Morgan | 00;20;21;26 - 00;20;51;04So the candidate experience and what you're going to talk about next week with the employee experience, I think they're really starting to almost meld into each other because I'll I'll leave you with two to examples of that. One, we were doing some recruiting for nurses, and the demand for nurses is very high right now. And as people were being interviewed and they would leave, we were texting them before they got to their car to say, congratulations, you got the job, come on back in.
Jim Morgan | 00;20;51;04 - 00;21;21;20We want to wrap this thing up because they didn't want to give them the opportunity to go out, see more people. So the candidate experience became the employee experience almost instantaneously. The other one similar to that was a manufacturing facility and they're hiring some CMC operators and what they did was they interviewed them, they took them out onto the floor, they were showing them everything that was going on and while they were getting the tour of the facility, the hiring team was deciding whether they wanted to keep them or whether they did well and they were keeping the offer letter on the table when they got back from the tour and they just said, congratulations, we'd like you to start, you know, on Monday, here's the offer letter and, you know, encourage them to say yes right there, because again, they're going to go home and there could be a message. It could be something else. So we got to move quickly.
Jim Morgan | 00;21;38;17 - 00;21;41;00And you told everybody at the beginning, you're giving them a week. There's the challenge right there.
Sophie Boler | 00;21;44;01 - 00;22;06;11Right. Well, Jim, you gave us a lot of great pieces of advice that I hope organizations really take into account. But that just about wraps up the time we have for today, unfortunately. But Jim, thank you so much for joining us today and really making it apparent to employers that they can't be doing the same thing that they've been doing for the past 20 years, ten years, even five years.
Sophie Boler | 00;22;07;07 - 00;22;18;26But we've added Jim's LinkedIn profile to the show notes. So if you'd like to connect with him and talk to him a little bit more about his knowledge, I'm sure he'd be happy to chat and connect with you.
Jim Morgan | 00;22;18;26 - 00;22;31;12More than happy to. And it's a lot of fun right now because, as I said, we're helping people understand the shortage. We're helping them with the recruitment, the employee experience. So any of those things, give me a call and conversation about it.
Sophie Boler | 00;22;31;18 - 00;22;52;29Absolutely. So make sure to connect with him there. But otherwise, we will be continuing the conversation next week when our VP of HR at MRA, James McDevitt, joins us to talk about the onboarding experience. So you won't want to miss that, but thank you again, Jim. I had a lot of fun and we talked about a lot of great stuff.
Sophie Boler | 00;22;52;29 - 00;22;55;03So hope to see you again soon.
Jim Morgan | 00;22;55;04 - 00;22;56;08Alright. Anytime.
OUTRO | 00;22;57;05 - 00;23;19;13And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other episodes on your favorite podcast platform and as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minute THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.
 

Your Competitive Compensation Trends Questions Answered!

Description: In this episode with HR Content Manager, Debbie Morgan, we wrap up the compensation conversation by giving you answers to YOUR questions! Debbie shares practical ideas business leaders can use today when it comes to compensation planning, including pay compression, employee attraction and retention, inflation, competitive pay strategies, and more.
Listen to Discover:
Pay is not based on inflation! Salary is a cost of doing business, and inflation is tied to the economy and the cost of purchasing goods. Inflation is tied to the cost of living, while salary budgets are tied to the cost of labor.
Organizations that have already made market adjustments and are confident in market positioning are planning merit budgets of around 4 percent.
Seventy percent of employers are planning benefit enhancements for 2023. Competitive health plans, generous vacation/sick/PTO, parental leave programs, remote work, and flexible schedules are differentiators. 
Bios:
Debbie Morgan, Manager, HR Content 
Let's Connect:
Debbie's LinkedIn Profile 
Resources:
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The report can be viewed on the MRA Website through the user dashboard. If you participated in the report, simply log in to the website, head over to your user dashboard, and locate surveys on the grey bar! From there you will see your report under “View Survey Reports”.
Are you an MRA member but did not have a chance to participate in this year's Compensation Trends Survey?
The full report can be purchased for $545, with applicable sales tax. To do so, login to the website, head on over to your dashboard and locate surveys on the grey bar. Click on it and it will take you to the survey page, scroll down to Purchase Survey Results and follow the steps on screen for the report you wish to purchase.
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Access our executive summary This is a small portion of the survey that includes key information from MRA's Compensation Trends Survey.
Transcript:
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;05
Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE - your go- to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever- changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. Now, it's time to THRIVE.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;18 - 00;00;51;25Well, hello, everybody. I am joined with Debbie Morgan today. She's our HR Content Manager here at MRA. She's been here for two years, but has really been in the business for 20 years now with HR experience and is really passionate about what she does. And I can say she's a pleasure to work with. But Debbie, I'm really excited to talk to you today to wrap up the 2022 CompTrends event and CompTrends survey.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;52;15 - 00;01;15;06
We talked to Mike and Brittany about this and they had great things to say. So we had over 1400 people register for the event, so we know it's a huge topic of interest to all of our listeners and our HR colleagues out there. But today, like I said, we're really here to just wrap it all up and we had a number of questions come in through our chat function.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;15;17 - 00;01;36;08
So we're going to take a look at some of the questions our members submitted. So the first question we really hear a lot when it comes to strategic compensation planning. So the data from the conference survey is collected months prior, but how can employers know what is happening in the current market to really plan for the coming year?
Debbie Morgan | 00;01;36;18 - 00;02;15;11
Yeah, that's a great question, Sophie. And I guess before we get too far into this, thank you for that great introduction. Yeah, I have over 20 years of crazy comp and benefits experience in what we're in right now, is definitely a unique market. So for companies that want to stay on top of it and really be up to date with those increases because they've been so turbulent and just so frequent last year, you're going to look at how, well, employers are going to have to do the math here.
Debbie Morgan | 00;02;16;08 - 00;02;47;21
So using those math skills, most people are going to start with the last increase that they gave people or the pay rate that people were at. Usually it's going to be starting January. That's the most common date to use. And you look at those on an annual basis and let's say the recommended increase is 4%, you're going to take the last pay increase and increase that by 1.04.
Debbie Morgan | 00;02;48;01 - 00;03;02;12
Now the "one" is "one" for one year later and then the .04 is the 4% that's trending and that'll get you where you should be for the following January if you originally started with January.
Sophie Boler | 00;03;02;18 - 00;03;10;25
Okay. Good to know. And then when we talk about crowdsourced compensation, is that a reliable source?
Debbie Morgan | 00;03;11;12 - 00;03;49;19
Yeah. Be careful when looking at crowdsourced data. I know if regular survey data is lacking or if you feel that it isn't keeping up with what you're hearing on the market, it's very tempting to give increases based on what your employees tell you or what you're hearing on the streets that other companies are offering. But, you know, a great example of that is when you see those giant billboards saying "now hiring up to $30 per hour" focus on that "up too", because you don't know what position that is referencing.
Debbie Morgan | 00;03;49;27 - 00;04;02;12
You don't know, you know, how much experience they're requiring to enter at that pay rate. So, you know, just be very cautious with that. Your most accurate data is going to come from surveys.
Sophie Boler | 00;04;02;15 - 00;04;12;22
Okay. So going along with that, can you tell us any other reliable sources that employers should use to do their market research on compensation?
Debbie Morgan | 00;04;12;22 - 00;04;47;25
Surveys are really going to be the best the best resource for you. Know the type of position that you're trying to cost out for. So if it's something that you're struggling with locally and you're recruiting locally for, try to use local data. If this is a position you're going to be recruiting from nationally, look at larger surveys that, you know, span a larger area: chambers of commerce, sometimes can be useful for that. ONET is a free resource.
Debbie Morgan | 00;04;48;11 - 00;05;16;16
It's put out by the Department of Labor. It's ONETonline.org. If you haven't used that before, you can make it very specific to the position, put in different specifics about it. Levels of education, levels of experience, things such as that, and also find that information based on your zip code, which is really great. Of course, MRA has awesome surveys for either local or national survey data.
Sophie Boler | 00;05;16;24 - 00;05;31;24
Okay, thanks, Debbie. Those are some great resources to take advantage of. So I have another big picture question for you. We're hearing that business is going to decline the rest of the year. How does business plan in such uncertain times?
Debbie Morgan | 00;05;31;24 - 00;06;00;09
Right now, it's so tricky. And the best recommendation is with cautious optimism, which I know sounds very vague and maybe a little frustrating for some people. But there are signs that show it could be related to industry. It's really too soon to tell, but really just take a look at what's happening in the environment and keep an eye on that and have your game plan ready if things start to fluctuate.
Sophie Boler | 00;06;00;17 - 00;06;18;08
Okay. And we talked a little bit about attraction and retention of employees the past couple of episodes. So we want to talk about that a little bit more with you today. So when posting a job, should the pay range really reflect the actual range or the budgeted range for a role?
Debbie Morgan | 00;06;18;18 - 00;06;58;14
That's going to depend on your company's strategy. Best practice is to use your current ranges because that's what's going to be communicated to employees. That's what managers are familiar with. And that way everyone is on the same page. If you are looking at hiring in the future, let's say six months down the road and you're putting, you know, your plan into place for that and you know you're going to be shifting your salary ranges, then you may consider doing that, but make sure before you begin promoting those different wages that managers, supervisors and everybody involved in the process is on the same page.
Sophie Boler | 00;06;58;25 - 00;07;11;28
Okay. And also related to attracting and retaining current employees, is there any guidance you have for what to provide current employees when offering a sign on bonus to any new hires?
Debbie Morgan | 00;07;12;16 - 00;07;50;07
This is something that we've heard employers are struggling with right now, that, you know, current employees who've been there maybe five, ten years are wondering, "okay, everybody that's coming in is now earning what I am." So what some employers have been doing is offering them different types of incentives or different things that they will find value in, such as paid time off, maybe the opportunity to flex the schedule if there are new job postings, give them the first option at either signing for them.
Debbie Morgan | 00;07;50;07 - 00;08;01;17
If you're a union organization or just letting them know first that there's going to be an opening and give them the option to kind of apply for that.
Sophie Boler | 00;08;02;08 - 00;08;16;00
But because of these bonuses and increases, we're also hearing concerns about pay compression. So can you review any best practices to address pay compression and any suggestions you have for an employer?
Debbie Morgan | 00;08;16;09 - 00;08;20;14
Yeah, pay compression is like the newest buzz word.
Sophie Boler | 00;08;20;14 - 00;08;21;01
Hot topic!
Debbie Morgan | 00;08;21;14 - 00;08;42;07
The news, hot topic and you know, not in such a great way. But again, it's going to be look at your salary structure and make sure that it's set and that it's sound and that you're following it. If you have designated pay ranges for certain positions, make sure you aren't red lining those and you're not going too far outside of those.
Debbie Morgan | 00;08;42;18 - 00;09;08;06
If you're going to start hiring new employees more towards the middle of those pay ranges, how does that look for the employees that are already in those jobs? If they've been there for several years and their first reaching the middle of those ranges, you're hiring new people there. What do you need to do to make that more equitable for the employees that have some tenure with you?
Sophie Boler | 00;09;08;06 - 00;09;18;12
And what would you say is the best way to solve pay compression for entry level positions because of the recently increased starting pay rate?
Debbie Morgan | 00;09;18;12 - 00;09;41;26
Sometimes that's an indication that you're going to want to look at where your pay ranges are right now. Again, if you're bringing on new people and you're consistently hiring them closer to the middle of your range, do you maybe need to shift that range? So they're now starting towards the bottom and then adjust the employees that are already there as well.
Debbie Morgan | 00;09;42;04 - 00;09;51;27
So if there's say, a three year employee that's closer to the middle, when you shift that new range, what's it going to take to keep them in the middle of that new range as well?
Sophie Boler | 00;09;52;03 - 00;10;10;06
Okay. And what is the best way to address a situation where you have an employee that's hired and they're earning a salary that's higher than someone in the same role with a good performance history and who has been with the company for several years. Advice on what to do for that situation?
Debbie Morgan | 00;10;10;06 - 00;10;40;15
Yeah, look at the new hire and really key aspects of the job. Is their level of knowledge about the same as the person who's already in the position is there? How many years of experience do they have in that type of role? What other things are they bringing to the job that may be compensable? And how does that compare to the person who's already in the job?
Debbie Morgan | 00;10;40;24 - 00;10;48;06
If it's very much the same, take a look at the people who are already in that role and even the playing ground level off.
Sophie Boler | 00;10;48;17 - 00;11;15;01
Gotcha. And then inflation was also a key topic in this year's Compensation Trend Survey, and we had a number of questions relating to this topic. But during the event, we actually had a member comment that during the last period of high inflation, which was in the seventies and eighties, a period I don't remember, it was really common to tie in the cost of living allowances to the Consumer Price Index.
Sophie Boler | 00;11;15;01 - 00;11;20;14
So is there any indication that companies will begin implementing COLA adjustments again?
Debbie Morgan | 00;11;21;03 - 00;11;53;17
Some companies have, and that's not always best practice because inflation is a very different concept than wages and you're paying somebody for labor. Inflation is based on the you know, what it costs to live and wages are based on the value of a job, how in-demand a position is. So while they still relate to business, they're two different directions of that.
Debbie Morgan | 00;11;53;25 - 00;12;11;18
So they shouldn't be based off of each other. When inflation increases, that doesn't necessarily mean wages should increase, just like when inflation comes down, you're not going to lower what you're paying everybody either. I don't think you'd get a favorable response for your employees.
Sophie Boler | 00;12;11;21 - 00;12;22;12
Right. And you kind of covered this in your last response. But how do organizations really combat expectations that salary increases will match the inflation rates?
Debbie Morgan | 00;12;24;00 - 00;12;49;22
That's a great question. And I know a lot of people, a lot of companies are asking that same question because employees do come to that. My children asked me about this when they got their pay increases this year and why aren't they keeping in line with inflation? And they're really two different concepts. Inflation is related to what it costs to live and what it costs to purchase goods.
Debbie Morgan | 00;12;49;22 - 00;13;19;28
And basically, you know, your groceries and things such as that where, you know, businesses look at the value of a job and what the market is driving for that job. It's more based on, you know, is the job high in high demand? And you know, what is it going to take to keep that employee in that market versus having them go to one of your competitors?
Sophie Boler | 00;13;20;13 - 00;13;34;26
Okay. I gotcha. And we've also heard that employers are really being more creative with their pay strategies. And you've covered a little bit about this, too, but what are some effective hourly incentive compensation strategies that you've seen?
Debbie Morgan | 00;13;35;06 - 00;14;02;15
A lot more employers are looking at that as well, because even though your neighbor down the road might be increasing wages, that doesn't necessarily mean that your budget has room for that. So employers are looking at things that are either more cost effective or no cost at all, such as flexible work schedules. Some companies are that we're going to bring employees back into the office are continuing to offer the option of working from home things, other little benefits like pet insurance or child care. You know, additional paid time off really speaks to some people as well. One of the biggest suggestions is to listen to your employees and find out what they value and see if you can do something related to that.
Sophie Boler | 00;14;32;26 - 00;14;40;06
And what recommendations do you have for companies to manage the frequency of salary reviews in these changing times?
Debbie Morgan | 00;14;41;16 - 00;15;06;22
Well, you know, again, if you look at your salary structure and if you have one in place and you feel that it's very solid, stick with that. And if it seems to make sense that your annual reviews are keeping pace with the market, then it may not be necessary to do anything. If you haven't done a salary review, this could be a really good opportunity to do that and kind of tighten things up.
Debbie Morgan | 00;15;07;14 - 00;15;15;12
Take a look at what the market is and how that's pacing and try to develop your your process around that.
Sophie Boler | 00;15;15;28 - 00;15;28;15
So what if a company has already made several wage adjustments to remain competitive regarding merit? What percentage increase should employers use to stay competitive?
Debbie Morgan | 00;15;28;29 - 00;15;54;17
Well, the predictions for the upcoming year, so for 2023, are around 4%. That's what we've been seeing from a lot of the most popular resources, including MRA's, our CompTrends. So, you know, take a look at that. Even though you've made adjustments in the past, that was pretty much to get in line with what everybody was doing at that time.
Debbie Morgan | 00;15;55;23 - 00;16;02;14
Companies are still forecasting for next year. So stick with that. And, you know, look at doing market increases.
Debbie Morgan | 00;16;03;24 - 00;16;05;01
Keep doing what you're doing. 
Sophie Boler | 00;16;05;20 - 00;16;27;01
And in addition to being creative with pay increases, employers are also being creative with their total rewards. So at MRA, we often say it's not a benefit if the employee doesn't see it as a benefit. So what are some of the most creative benefits that you've been seeing and the most impactful ones for employee retention?
Debbie Morgan | 00;16;28;07 - 00;17;10;21
Again, it's going to be tied to what your employees want. One of the most popular benefits we've been seeing is tied to time off or additional vacation days, maybe adding another holiday, maybe providing the option to flex time or work from home or other things have started to creep in. Everybody knows about the COVID pets and you know, now that people are heading back into the office or maybe they're moving to a four day workweek, so those days are longer, you know, pet insurance or helping with like doggy day care or child care have become popular benefits as well.
Sophie Boler | 00;17;10;28 - 00;17;21;18
And you mentioned PTO in your last statement. So is two weeks of vacation for new hires still competitive or do you have other recommendations for that?
Debbie Morgan | 00;17;21;18 - 00;17;45;20
Yeah, I'm going to give you the it depends answer. Entry level positions, some manufacturing positions, things such as that may still do two weeks, but most other professional positions or when you're hiring people with experience, even a couple of years of experience, two weeks is not going to be competitive. It typically will start at at least three weeks.
Sophie Boler | 00;17;45;29 - 00;17;59;27
Gotcha. Okay. Well, I have so many more questions, but it looks like we might be out of time, unfortunately. But can you tell the listeners where to go to get any more information on their compensation questions?
Debbie Morgan | 00;17;59;27 - 00;18;34;12
Absolutely. Our survey team is an incredible resource as everyone listening to this probably knows. CompTrends was one of our most popular surveys. I think to date, as you mentioned, 1400 viewers or participants. So it's definitely what people want to know. And they work with us, do that every day. Our compensation team as well is incredible and they've been working with our members to find really creative solutions to some of the things that are going on.
Debbie Morgan | 00;18;35;08 - 00;18;56;02
Inflationary responses when companies are concerned about that. But just taking a look at their pay structure too, our hotline is an amazing resource also. They're, you know, answering questions all day, every day. So if you have a quick ask or are looking just for a resource, give our hotline a call too.
Sophie Boler | 00;18;56;22 - 00;19;24;11
And thank you too for all of your hard work, and for the listeners, you can definitely connect with Debbie on LinkedIn and she's there to answer your questions. So we have links to some of these resources in the show notes below and have put Debbie's LinkedIn profile in there too. But otherwise, we will see you next week when we're joined with Jim Morgan to talk more about talent attraction, candidate experience, the onboarding experience, all that fun stuff.
Sophie Boler | 00;19;25;05 - 00;19;49;26
But thank you again, Debbie. This was awesome. A lot of great information, and we will see you guys next week.
OUTRO | 00;19;50;13 - 00;19;56;25
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform, and as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minute THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.

The Real Results - Compensation Trends Survey

JUST IN: The results are in for MRA’s 2022 Compensation Trends Survey, and expert Mike Kopczynski is here to give you answers! Does your organization need to re-think it’s compensation strategy? We’ll cover pay increase, compensation strategy, talent shortage, total rewards, and more.
Listen to Discover:
With the dynamic environment of the last two years, more and more companies are investing in a compensation strategy. What should be included in the strategy?
How employers can differentiate themselves and adapt quickly to the intense competition for labor
What makes MRA’s Compensation Trends Survey stand out – learn how we stay in tune with the current business trends
Bios:
Mike Kopczynski, Custom Surveys and Business Research Lead
Let's Connect:
Mike's LinkedIn Profile
Resources:
Are you an MRA member that participated in this year's Compensation Trends Survey?
The report can be viewed on the MRA Website through the user dashboard. If you participated in the report, simply log in to the website, head over to your user dashboard, and locate surveys on the grey bar! From there you will see your report under “View Survey Reports”.
Are you an MRA member but did not have a chance to participate in this year's Compensation Trends Survey?
The full report can be purchased for $545, with applicable sales tax. To do so, login to the website, head on over to your dashboard and locate surveys on the grey bar. Click on it and it will take you to the survey page, scroll down to Purchase Survey Results and follow the steps on screen for the report you wish to purchase.
Not a MRA member yet?
Access our executive summary This is a small portion of the survey that includes key information from MRA's Compensation Trends Survey.
Transcript:
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;03
Hello, hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. Now, it’s time to thrive!
 
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;17 - 00;00;55;14
Well, I'm excited to continue the Compensation Trends Survey series and really move into more of the results of the survey. So last week, Brittany went into the ins and outs of the production of the survey. But this week I'm joined with Mike Kopczynski, Customer Surveys and Business Research Lead here at MRA. And Mike has over 20 years of leading research teams and really plays a key role in the production of MRA surveys, which is awesome.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;00;55;27 - 00;01;11;09
And you actually just spoke at the Comp Trends event last week, which was great, and I know that went well, but really this week we want to go into the results of the survey. So welcome to the show, Mike. How are you doing today?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;01;11;10 - 00;01;25;08
Great, Sophie, thank you and yeah, thank you for having me on board. Last week was pretty intense. Yeah, it was fun to express the results. Inform members, obviously, of this year's challenges of this year's findings.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;01;25;09 - 00;01;25;29
Absolutely.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;01;26;09 - 00;01;26;25
Thanks for having me.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;01;26;29 - 00;01;40;13
For sure. Well, really, just want to start out by asking the main question that's on employer's minds right now, and that is what percent pay increase can employers expect based on the survey results?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;01;40;22 - 00;02;06;03
Yeah, it is typically asked in our survey, and one of the questions that we historically trendd is payment merit increases. And as you alluded to, 4.0% is this year's number. It's the highest incremental increase that we saw in 15 years as we've tracked the survey and many companies are using that to pin their number based on their merit increases on top of base pay.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;02;06;11 - 00;02;08;07
So 4.0% this year.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;02;08;21 - 00;02;28;24
And 4%, it's a lot. I mean, considering that past years have been 3%, but we've even heard this upcoming year that some companies are going as far as 4.7%, which is huge. So how can an employer really plan to adjust to this pay increase?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;02;29;02 - 00;02;58;28
Yeah, very true. In prior years, as you mentioned, most salary increases were pegged around 3.0 to 3.2%, with a great resignation, inflation and other factors, employers really had to, you know, jostle around. They had pressure to increase their budgets, increased salaries. And then that being said, all employee this year, all employee groups this year, were given at least a 4.7% increase in actually the production of workers.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;02;59;13 - 00;03;11;10
Some of those are areas or some of those industries where they work on the plant floor were given over 5%, up to 5.2%. So major differences from two years ago.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;03;11;12 - 00;03;26;15
Absolutely. And I mean, with the dynamic environment of the last two years, more and more companies are really investing in a compensation strategy. So what percentage of employers surveyed have a compensation strategy?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;03;26;19 - 00;03;55;17
Yeah, well, just over half of employers are saying that they've had or are creating, let me say it this way, over half of the employers surveyed said that they have a compensation strategy and another 21% are developing one. So it's about 76% in total, if you think about it that way. The reason for a comp strategy is to help make quick decisions and to actually help communicate those decisions in a more formal setting.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;03;56;00 - 00;04;11;20
Right. So now that the listeners have that info, can you tell me what makes this compensation survey really stand out from the others that are out there? Brittany kind of covered some of this last week, but we want to know your thoughts on it.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;04;11;23 - 00;04;35;29
Well, Brittany’s a part of our survey team, and definitely helps manage and do our reports. It's a challenging time for employers and to offer them with timely insights and that's really a goal of MRA and MRA survey department in general. That's what we try to do is give them full access to information that we gain or them glean from employers right off the cuff.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;04;36;13 - 00;04;51;28
MRA has a history of doing this and producing accurate and timely information. Organizations understand that the changes and trends that are occurring have occurred in compensation and this year, and no doubt compensation was really a main focus for a lot of employers for sure.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;04;51;28 - 00;05;03;13
And Brittany also covered a little bit of this, but this compensation survey has been going on for over 20 years, which is a long time. So how do you guys do it?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;05;03;19 - 00;05;26;11
Yeah. And to your point, though, there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes. We stay in tune with the current business climate as well as trends. That is occurring within compensation. Along the way, we tweak the instrument to align with what members really need. Those needs are captured through various channels such as MRA’s 24/7 Hotline from MRA’s HR business partners that are actually in locations where they sit at employers’ locations and then other insights gleaned from MRA’s surveys. We manage about 14, 15 different annual surveys throughout the year. So compensation, we get our compensation data from all types of industries, of all types of employee groups. That said, though, and most importantly, the insights come from employers. They come from local companies with similar needs.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;05;54;20 - 00;06;06;19
And as we mentioned, the survey’s been going on for 20 years and it's changed a little bit throughout the years. So what have you personally seen over the years to accommodate the changing business environment?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;06;06;24 - 00;06;37;21
Yeah, indeed. 20 years is a long time. If you think about it and just a historical standpoint, there has been a lot of occurred in those years, even dating back to 2008 when the Great Recession hit, people were freezing a lot of wages. So there was a lot of insights and a lot of learning from that era. Then you go back, then you add ten years after that until the pandemic, the last two years, 2019, 2020 into the 2021, there was just a whole slew of uncertainty that employers were faced with.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;06;38;03 - 00;07;04;09
So wages were frozen in some remote many instances were frozen at those times. And then two years later, here we are almost a 180 degree turn with the retention and hiring efforts that a lot of companies are faced with today. So it's almost a shift or a priority shift in all that time. But basically it's a lot of a lot of research that we do internally.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;07;04;26 - 00;07;21;13
The department takes its time, we walk, we talk internally to not only survey department, but also other areas of the company, as I mentioned, that help provide insights and provide us with some good questions that we could then formulate and passed back to members for their opinions.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;07;22;01 - 00;07;38;24
For sure. Yeah. And like you just said, I mean, there's been a lot of different priority shifts throughout the years with business trends. And one of them right now is talent shortage. So talent shortage is a hot topic right now. What questions did you ask to address this?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;07;39;04 - 00;08;06;23
Yeah, as 2022 started, it really became apparent that the great resignation would continue. In fact, it continued really strongly, much more so that many members knew about or had an understanding of the need to hire as well as retain became very crucial. Well, those recognize that base pay attracts talent and that total compensation is a significant factor in that fostering of employee commitment to a company.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;08;07;15 - 00;08;52;14
The additional survey questions that we added this year, to get at inflation to get at some of the goals of what was really happening in the economic climate, in understanding what total rewards policies would change, and identify exactly how much wages and total rewards were changing and at what levels to level set and to identify with. If a company needs to add on to their base salaries or add it onto their different types of philosophies on how they formulate their business plans and then finally understand other tactics that employers are using to provide additional compensation, such as variable pay, perks, other benefits.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;08;52;25 - 00;09;10;20
And all these things came into play, came into focus more this year because a lot of people that were looking for jobs, those that were new candidates or were comparing, were comparing what they had versus what they what a new company could offer. And if it was better or worse, that's how they made the decision.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;09;11;00 - 00;09;26;04
Right. And I mean, given the high inflation rate now, what are companies really doing for employees that I mean, in recent months, organizations have been looking for other ways to pay. So what can you say about that?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;09;26;11 - 00;09;53;01
Yeah, base pay is absolutely a critical component to an organization's philosophy and providing competitive compensation pegged to market conditions is absolutely a necessity. So that is clearly, first and foremost that employer needs to manage. However, secondly, though, variable pay options in the form of bonuses and there are many types of bonuses. There are referral bonuses, holiday bonuses, attendance bonuses.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;09;53;11 - 00;10;16;23
All these new things were developed in the last couple of years to attract and retain employees. That's one of the reasons that we tried that is to promote and give additional incentives. So this year, part of the survey information we learned is that 66% of organizations are providing some type of variable pay option. Two years ago, that was only 23%.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;10;17;08 - 00;10;46;12
So almost a three time increase in that behavior from employers. So it really is it really goes to show that there's a lot of activity going around compensation. And I think that's the challenge. And even the pitfalls that a lot of companies face, if they're not doing some of these things. So I think that's the whole goal, is just to let the information to our employers and employers that are MRA members and have them at least understand that these options available.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;10;46;29 - 00;11;04;19
Bottom line, though, an employer's goal is to ensure that they are retaining and keeping employees and that keep them happy in this current labor market. You know, in essence, finding the balance to offset the cost of living while also managing the cost of labor. So it's a really a balancing act.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;11;04;19 - 00;11;16;03
Yeah, for sure. And total rewards is also key in the compensation conversation. So do you have any advice for both employers and employees about total rewards?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;11;16;21 - 00;11;36;23
Yeah, total rewards. And I think that's it from the from the outlook of an employee. They may not even be aware of the total rewards, really. It's all about. So part of the idea is really to help it understand how to communicate that better to them. Organizations really need to be quick leaders and it could be your managers. It could be for folks. Well, whenever you talk to employees, the resources to communicate, pay decisions. So how do you do that effectively, I guess. I mean, so I’ve got a couple of bullet points that actually illustrate some of these things. Also, another point would be consider using compensation statements in that communication. So if you're not aware of what a compensation statement, it basically is a piece of paper that identifies the total reward.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;12;04;26 - 00;12;30;14
It’s got, it's compensation, it's benefits. It's all those things that go into what an employee earns that is offset, offset in addition to base pay. So there's a lot involved with that. And I think that's what's missed when we look at it from the from only the lens of an employee. And then thirdly, help employees understand how pay and merit are actually calculated and conducted.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;12;30;29 - 00;12;53;03
You know, a lot of companies use these, as I mentioned earlier, compensation strategies. And part of that is that they need to how do they actually collect their data? Are they using crowd sourced information or the actually using information that's coming from employers through survey data? So that's a huge a huge learning and a huge conversation that could happen.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;12;53;21 - 00;13;15;27
Now, providing and learning as well as what variable pay options are available for your organization. A lot of these are cultural based. So if your organization has a, you know, just be aware what your culture can stand for. And employees, you know, are definitely willing to accept whatever you have. But I think the idea is you have to make it fit within the culture that you have.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;13;17;01 - 00;13;38;10
Just a couple other things here. You know, stay in tune with the market. You know, I think a lot of companies, when they look at their total rewards, they need to be consistent with what's going on in the marketplace, doing a or having the survey that is done every year or every two years at the minimum, at least, pegs you to what the current conditions are.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;13;38;19 - 00;13;57;05
And I think that's very important that the pay is where all that, especially when it comes to retaining and even hiring some employers. And absolutely finally, kind of, you know, have the conversations. Right. And I think that's what's becoming more and more apparent to organizations yet. It's really it's not there yet, but still struggling with that.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;13;57;05 - 00;14;04;19
And you're saying how important these conversations are, but are organizations really having these conversations or how many are having them?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;14;04;24 - 00;14;36;06
Yeah. Sophie you're right in, they really trained 31% of those organizations that we surveyed this year are saying that they are trying to conduct have conversations, but that's only 31%, less than a third of all organizations. So, you know, it really comes down to this. If you want to increase retention, increase your communication strategy, because I think that's that would help a lot of employees understand where they are, how their salaries are pegged to market conditions and then what the organization is doing for them.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;14;36;16 - 00;14;43;10
Those are just massive, you know, indications that a company is there for you. Right. And if you don't communicate that, how then?
 
Sophie Boler | 00;14;43;10 - 00;14;54;04
That’s some great advice you gave. But you talk a lot about compensation strategy. So if a company does not have a strategy, where do they start to begin?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;14;54;17 - 00;15;14;18
Right. Good point. You know, I mentioned the compensation statements, you know, but what it really comes down to this, employees come to work for a variety of reasons. What is the top, First and foremost, it's really to get paid. Right? Right. So pay is a huge indicator, a huge factor when it comes to what an employee really wants from an organization.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;15;14;26 - 00;15;17;05
So to be competitive, it's huge.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;15;17;15 - 00;15;22;20
But employers should include more than just increasing wages, correct?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;15;22;22 - 00;15;43;07
Indeed. Yeah. No, they absolutely have to. When compensation experts actually scope a project, you know, there's a lot of things that they do in that endeavor. How do you determine how much to pay? Somebody goes back to the market you're in, what location you're in your city. You know what? With city and state you actually live in make a significant difference.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;15;43;24 - 00;16;01;29
Where do you find your employer employees? Where do you find them? You know, how do you define your labor market? You know, are you going off to school? Are you going out to colleges? Where do you recruit? Are you recruiting directly from, you know, job postings and stuff like that? So all those all those variables come into play.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;16;03;03 - 00;16;25;27
What are your current challenges? Many organizations, it's a cultural thing. You know what your challenges internally are. You are you struggling to keep employees on all job levels? And if that's the case, then there are certain challenges that you need to fix there. Do you have guidelines in place that provide direction and reduce ambiguity? So what are your policies?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;16;25;27 - 00;16;58;21
What policies have changed? You know, maybe you need to look at that and possibly change some of those down the road. And then based on some of these answers, you can make a good guess. You can make a good guess of where to start and actually where to fill some of the gaps. So not knowing how a job is formulated from both angles, from the employee side and even on the employer side, you know, could be a very detriment or downfall for the organization if you can't justify pay decisions within the management team, how can you justify it to employers and or candidates?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;16;59;03 - 00;17;20;05
So it's a pretty big challenge to overcome that. Survey results this year informed us that I mentioned earlier, 53% of organizations have a comp strategy. 21% are looking to do that or are developing one. That's great. But as I mentioned, there's a lot of work specifically in this current business climate. So comp strategies, becoming more and more.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;17;20;18 - 00;17;36;23
Absolutely. And we often tell our members here at afraid it's not a benefit unless the employee sees it as a benefit. So did this survey really provide ideas around what are some creative benefits that employers should be using and considering?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;17;37;25 - 00;17;59;19
It did. The intense competition for labor really has demanded that employers differentiate themselves this year more so than other years. You know, and we will definitely, there's some aspects of the survey that were creatively developed as a result of just making sure that we hit upon some of those themes that are being created by employers.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;17;59;26 - 00;18;06;29
Right. And like you said, they should be offering other things like variable pay, perks and other benefits.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;18;07;01 - 00;18;25;03
Yes, absolutely. In addition to that, the offering, the right benefit to the right employee is key. A younger employee is less likely to want dollars, you know, given to them or in place for their for on care. They may want to they want help in reducing their tuition expenses.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;18;25;06 - 00;18;25;18
Student loans.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;18;26;03 - 00;18;48;02
Loans or helping pay for their first home on a down payment or receive the down payment on the opposite side of the coin, whatever is. If you're a little bit older, you are watching to save a little bit more for your retirement fund or you're you're actually saving for your children, your grandchildren's tuition. So there could be other options available down that road.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;18;48;09 - 00;18;53;10
And that's actually what we're seeing, is that some of those creative and unique perks.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;18;53;22 - 00;19;08;08
Are absolutely right. You've shared a lot of great insights and a lot of good advice for business leaders and organizations just as a whole. So do you have any parting advice or any information to share with our business leaders?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;19;08;22 - 00;19;33;13
This is such a great topic and this year has been really challenging and so to express this information, I think it's just a critical time and we're historically trying to produce this information in time for budgets. So we tried to step that back and tried to feed this data or try to express this data a little bit or forthcoming to employers.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;19;33;13 - 00;20;02;29
So with that being said, decisions have always been held so tightly. In the last ten, 15 years, though, I think it's becoming more and more open now. The transparency of communication of pay and even from the higher levels of employees and employers, we want to marry that together a little bit more. So communicate more often. That being said, though, we have to ensure that both the employee and the employer feel that fee is actually adequate and fair.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;20;02;29 - 00;20;03;08
Right.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;20;04;04 - 00;20;28;01
You know, secondly, is the grass really greener on the other side of the fence, you know, with a lot of people that have moved jobs, that have, you know, crossed over as a result of the great resignation, are our companies taking those risks seriously? And what has happened to those? And for those employees, are they really in stress roles that pay higher?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;20;28;24 - 00;20;50;13
And what are you doing for them? Are you training them adequately? You know, are they really being pushed to, you know, promote within a little bit more? So what about like additional or internal training activities and tactics? I think employers today need to kind of look at themselves a little bit more so and have those options more available.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;20;50;24 - 00;21;27;03
So succession planning, what I think a lot of companies were forced into identifying, I lost an employee that was with me for so many years that I don't know what to do. So I think to have a plan in place that I think that's the learning, I think that came out of this is that there's a lot more insight available to employers, but there's some work that they need to do to make sure that they have all these things in place or from internal training, succession planning to promoting, you know, promoting with them, I think new things that are becoming business strategies that will be taking place.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;21;27;03 - 00;21;50;20
Sophie, lastly, I think organizations need to ask some tough questions. Outside of pay, why do employees really come to work? Do they enjoy working here? Do they recommend this place as a great place to work? You know, additionally, how many employees are engaged, how many are passive? How many or worst detractors do they know your products and services and brag about them to their friends?
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;21;50;20 - 00;22;19;28
You know, with companies experiencing larger than expected turnover and especially this last year and if you're fortunate, new personnel that they hired, it might be time to really gather some fresh insights from their employee base. So do some workforce surveys, maybe learn some of those things that fill in some of those gaps and then basically to inform your employees where they are within those gaps, to help them formulate those business plans and make a full round employee commitment to them.
 
Mike Kopczynski | 00;22;19;28 - 00;22;20;23
All right. Thank you.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;22;21;27 - 00;22;44;20
All right. Well, Mike, this has been great. You offered a lot of great information for everybody. So thank you for all of your hard work pulling the survey together and discussing more of the results. For those of you listening, we've added the link to the Compensation Trends Survey in the show notes, so make sure to go to our website and check out the survey there if you haven't.
 
Sophie Boler | 00;22;45;15 - 00;23;09;02
Other than that, we will be closing out our series next week when Debbie Morgan joins us to kind of wrap up some key points of the survey and make sure to connect with Mike and any further information on compensation trends. We've linked his profile in the show notes below, but thank you again, Mike, for everything's been great. I've had fun and we will see you next week.
 
OUTRO | 00;23;09;02 - 00;23;31;09
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.