Wednesday Oct 12, 2022
How Successful Companies Make the Most of Their Onboarding
In this episode with James McDevitt, Vice President of Human Resources at MRA, we talk pre-boarding, onboarding, and orientation best practices! James shares real-life stories and advice from his 25+ year HR experience and proves his belief that a company’s most valuable assets are its people!
Listen to Discover:
- According to the most recent Gallup Poll, about 1/3 of U.S. employees are engaged in their work and workplace. How can you increase this number?
- Effective onboarding does not end on day 3 or day four. It's a continuous process. And this is where companies who succeed build cultures where personal development and continuous improvement is part of the culture.
- The pre-boarding, onboarding, and orientation processes need to be individualized to the new hire, their role, their interests, and goals.
Let's Connect:
Transcript:
INTRO | 00;00;00;03 - 00;00;23;05
Hello, hello, everybody and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now, it’s time to THRIVE!
Sophie Boler | 00;00;23;17 - 00;00;49;16
Well, with all the conversation around employee engagement and retention, we thought it would be a great idea to really tackle that topic today on our podcast and follow up to Jim Morgan’s episode last week on candidate experience. So according to the most recent Gallup Poll, about one-third of U.S. employees are engaged in their work at their workplace.
Sophie Boler | 00;00;49;16 - 00;01;17;01
And we’re talking a pretty low percentage. So one way that we can increase employee engagement from the very start is by really focusing on the employee experience with a strong onboarding program. And in fact, according to another study from TalentWise, 91 percent of employees stick around for at least a year when organizations have an efficient onboarding process, which is a pretty large percentage.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;17;14 - 00;01;49;29
So today I’m joined with James McDevitt. He’s our vice president of human resources here at MRA, and is an absolute pleasure to work with. But James comes with a ton of experience, having worked in HR for more than 25 years and really has a lot of operations experience working for both large and small companies. But while James has transformed human resource organizations into a strategic vehicle for growth, he really holds the belief that a company’s most valuable asset are their people.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;50;24 - 00;01;54;09
So welcome, James. Let’s talk onboarding process.
James McDevitt | 00;01;54;09 - 00;01;55;22
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Sophie Boler | 00;01;56;00 - 00;02;07;24
Absolutely. But before we get to the actual onboarding talk, we should first talk about the preboarding stage. So do you have any suggestions for preboarding a brand-new employee?
James McDevitt | 00;02;07;25 - 00;02;32;15
Absolutely. And as you said, employees are the most valuable assets of any organization. Without the people, there is no product, no services, no nothing. So it’s really important that employers do everything they can to engage, to motivate, retain, and develop their employees. And as you suggested, that really starts even before they start. Pre-boarding is an important part of the process.
James McDevitt | 00;02;32;15 - 00;02;50;27
It’s often overlooked. And sometimes not a lot of thought goes into what happens before they start. But a lot of it happens after they start. So what tends to happen? People are not sure when they’re supposed to start. They’re not sure what the dress code is. They’re not sure of where they’re supposed to be. They turn up at the wrong location.
James McDevitt | 00;02;51;07 - 00;03;12;28
They turn up at the wrong time, and suddenly you’re off to a bad start. You really are. So I think it’s really important to put a process in place where you recognize the importance of pre-boarding. So for example, make sure you call and speak to the candidate now that you hire before they start. Make sure they know where they’re going.
James McDevitt | 00;03;12;29 - 00;03;30;08
Make sure they know what time they’re supposed to be there. Make sure they know what the dress code is, but also plan ahead. Have a backup. What happens if the person is supposed to call, who would ideally be the hiring manager as a really important step in building that relationship? But what if the hiring manager gets sick?
James McDevitt | 00;03;31;20 - 00;03;51;00
Is there someone else there that can make the call? Likewise, on day one, even before the orientation starts, they’re supposed to arrive and meet somebody. What if that person got stuck in traffic? You should have a backup plan to make sure that whatever happens, that the new hire, the new employee is clearly communicated with.
Sophie Boler | 00;03;51;09 - 00;04;11;04
Right. And I think just speaking to my experience for the pre-boarding process, I really like that my team really provided a good idea of what my first week would look like before I even started. So it made me more comfortable to know, “Hey, on Monday, I’m going to do this, on Tuesday, I’m going to do this. This is what I should wear.
Sophie Boler | 00;04;11;12 - 00;04;21;12
This is what time I should show up.” And also just getting welcomed by other people not even on your team. It was really comforting.
James McDevitt | 00;04;21;13 - 00;04;33;08
Absolutely. And another good practice is sometimes companies will have like a “swag bag” of stuff on day one. That’s pretty cool. How cool would it be to get that before you even start?
Sophie Boler | 00;04;33;11 - 00;04;35;00
Get you a little energized before.
James McDevitt | 00;04;35;18 - 00;04;40;28
Get excited, get the swag to them before they even start. They’re going to be excited to be there.
Sophie Boler | 00;04;41;06 - 00;04;59;12
And then they can bring their swag onto their desk too. But let’s go into more of the onboarding part. And this is the time to really make a good first impression. So, onboarding is way more than just the workspace that they’re at. So, tell us what’s on your onboarding checklist?
James McDevitt | 00;04;59;28 - 00;05;18;22
So I think the first and most important thing is to make the employee welcome, to make them feel welcome. To make them feel like they’ve made the right decision and made the right choice. The reality is that employees today can choose to go, frankly, almost anywhere they want to go. So you have to convince them they’ve make the right choice.
James McDevitt | 00;05;18;22 - 00;05;42;12
It’s really important you make that impression on the first day. As I said earlier, make sure someone is there to greet them. Someone’s expecting them. You don’t want to turn up and there’s somebody in reception. “Hi, I’m James McDevitt.” So make sure that we’re expecting them. Make sure there’s a backup in case the person expecting them is not there. One thing I remember when I came over to the States a few years ago now,
James McDevitt | 00;05;42;12 - 00;05;59;18
that has stuck with me ever since, on the first day the CEO of the company, who’s also a co-founder of the company, I am very confident saying would have been a very busy man, took the time out on his first day to come and meet all the new hires and speak to us for at least 30 minutes
James McDevitt | 00;06;00;02 - 00;06;27;09
about the history of the company, why the company was founded, and the culture of the company. That happened over 20 years ago, and I still remember that conversation. So not just the hiring manager, the hiring manager’s key, if possible, if the hiring manager’s in the same location, they should be there. But get senior leadership, get the CEO if possible. If the CEO is not available, some other senior leader that can talk about the company, they can talk about the history of the company and where this person fits in.
James McDevitt | 00;06;28;11 - 00;06;40;03
As I said, you really want to make this feel welcome, this person feel welcome. You want to get them pumped that they made the right decision. And they’re excited and looking forward, not just to day one, but to day two, day three, and day four.
Sophie Boler | 00;06;40;12 - 00;06;52;28
Absolutely. And you kind of gave us a little overview on your checklist, but do you have any examples of a really bad onboarding experience that companies can kind of listen to, to stray away from?
James McDevitt | 00;06;53;00 - 00;07;14;26
Sure. There’s unfortunately, there’s more than one I can think of. I think a lot of companies fall into this trap as well, where day one tends to be the “HR day” and you stick them in a room with very competent HR professionals. But they’re going through a relatively dry topic in terms of benefits of accidental death and dismemberment insurance and making sure you fill out the forms.
Sophie Boler | 00;07;14;26 - 00;07;15;06
All the fun stuff.
James McDevitt | 00;07;15;06 - 00;07;36;13
All the fun stuff. And if you’re in an environment, like in a manufacturing environment, you maybe have to go sit through a safety presentation and you can see that the new hires and the new employees are literally switching off and thinking, “Why am I here?” So sometimes you have to do that. You have to go through benefits, you have to go through safety, but make it fun, make it exciting.
James McDevitt | 00;07;36;26 - 00;08;01;01
Another example from the same company when I came to the U.S., the other example from the orientation I remember the payroll manager came and was explaining how you get paid and that’s obviously a good thing. But again, some of that is a little bit of a detail in terms of timesheets and things like that. But she made it fun and exciting and as a payroll manager, she had a little PayDay candy bars and she would ask questions.
James McDevitt | 00;08;01;12 - 00;08;04;29
And if you got a question right, she threw a PayDay candy bar at you.
Sophie Boler | 00;08;05;10 - 00;08;07;11
That’s an incentive.
James McDevitt | 00;08;07;11 - 00;08;32;12
So make it fun. Make it exciting. Don’t make it boring. You got to fill out the I-9. You got to fill out benefits, paperwork, but make it fun. Make it interesting. And another example of where it didn’t really work was someone I know traveled a long way, actually relocated to the position. And on the first day, this person was an attorney and she was all dressed up, all smart, as you would expect an attorney to dress.
James McDevitt | 00;08;33;01 - 00;08;52;23
And she showed up to her office. And that’s a good start. Her manager wasn’t there and she wasn’t quite sure and her laptop didn’t work, and she ended up having to scramble around under the table in her best clothes, trying to figure out how to plug her laptop in and thinking, “Why am I here?” So those are simple things that can be avoided.
Sophie Boler | 00;08;53;08 - 00;09;06;24
Absolutely. And I mean, nowadays we see a lot more remote employees. So what about the remote employees? How do you apply that same process that you just talked about if a new employee is remote?
James McDevitt | 00;09;06;24 - 00;09;30;18
It’s the same principles. It’s harder. It’s easier if you’re all in the same place. And it’s obviously harder if you’re not, but it’s basically the same principle: Get them pumped up, get them excited, make them feel like they’ve made the right decision. If it’s possible to get them into another company location near where they live, try to do your best to do that and have somebody greet them and have lunch with them and all the rest of it.
James McDevitt | 00;09;31;05 - 00;09;56;21
If that’s not feasible, can you get their technology to them before their first day? Can you get a laptop to them, for example? Give them instructions on how to log in, work with the IT team to get their email on, all the connections set up so that if you are doing orientation sessions on day one, Zoom is a wonderful technology at times, but Zoom can be our friend on orientation day with remote workers.
James McDevitt | 00;09;56;21 - 00;10;23;03
Get them involved, make sure the hiring manager, again with the pre-boarding, the hiring manager’s spoken to them already. They’re building that relationship. Get them to speak with their teams. Even though they may be sitting in their living room or wherever they’re sitting, make them included, make them feel included. One good practice that a lot of companies do is have lunch with the new hire on day one and wherever possible, maybe get the team involved.
James McDevitt | 00;10;23;03 - 00;10;42;25
Again, if you’re all in the same location, that’s not too difficult. If you’re in different locations, that’s hard. So think ahead. Maybe send them a food delivery voucher, coupon, gift card in advance so they can order lunch so they can be having lunch on the company while at the same time everybody else is having lunch. Again, it’s the same thing.
James McDevitt | 00;10;42;25 - 00;10;48;16
Make them feel they belong, make them feel part of the culture. Make them feel like they’ve made the right decision.
Sophie Boler | 00;10;48;21 - 00;11;02;24
Right. And I mean, we’ve covered a couple of different terms so far—pre-boarding, onboarding—and now we’re going to go a little bit into orientation. So could you talk a little bit about the difference between onboarding and orientation?
James McDevitt | 00;11;02;24 - 00;11;26;19
Sure. Now those two phrases can be a little interchangeable sometimes, but technically orientation is really about the initial welcome on the first day or the first couple of days that you have the new hire becoming the new employee and becoming the regular employee, so to speak. So it’s really the initial welcome. And the goal there, as I said, is to make them think they’ve made the right decision by choosing you.
James McDevitt | 00;11;27;03 - 00;11;42;29
Onboarding is more of a longer term process where you’re really helping them learn how to do their job, how to be effective in their job, how to build relationships, cross-functionally on project teams, etc., etc. So onboarding is a longer, broader process. Orientation is the first impressions.
Sophie Boler | 00;11;43;05 - 00;11;59;15
Okay, thank you. And what is the best way to really help a new hire integrate into the organization? How do you teach them about your company’s core values and mission and history without plopping down a bunch of papers and saying, “Read”?
James McDevitt | 00;11;59;19 - 00;12;18;02
Yeah, absolutely. And that you just highlighted the one thing I don’t think you should do, although these days, people don’t necessarily give you a file and a bunch of papers. They say, “There’s a website, go read” or “Go watch that online video and I’ll come back at lunchtime again.” Again, how exciting is that for the new hire?
James McDevitt | 00;12;18;02 - 00;12;43;18
Are they are they pumped to be here? Because I spent 2 hours watching online videos or reading forms online? No, talk to them. You should have a plan. You should have a “who does that person need to know” to be successful in their role? What relationships do they need to start working on? Those are all important. So have a plan, but make sure the plan is flexible enough so that it’s individualized by the person or the role.
James McDevitt | 00;12;43;18 - 00;13;03;01
In some organizations, it’s important that you know this person and other organizations, it’s important you know that person. Don’t just have people meet everybody for the sake of meeting everybody. So have a plan. When you talk about the culture of the organization and the values of the organization, make sure you yourself are demonstrating those values so they can actually see them in action.
James McDevitt | 00;13;03;01 - 00;13;31;22
If you’re in an environment where it’s very customer, very member focused, you show them how that works in reality. Give them examples, talk to members of the team, demonstrate those values in action. As I said, meet the team, meet the key stakeholders. Appreciate some of the generational differences that exist out there, but really be inclusive, be positive, and again, get them jazzed to be there as part of the team.
Sophie Boler | 00;13;31;22 - 00;13;39;18
Great. And I mean, this might differ depending on what company you’re at, but how long should a typical onboarding process take?
James McDevitt | 00;13;40;00 - 00;14;02;16
So I think that’s a trick question because the answer is, I don’t think it ever ends. Again, orientation is you’re setting yourself up for success within the organization. Onboarding, you’re now going to take that to the next level on how to do your job. But your job evolves. You evolve as a person. You develop, you’re continually, hopefully continually, learning, doing new things.
James McDevitt | 00;14;02;25 - 00;14;09;10
You’re being trained on how to do new things. You’re learning how to do new things. Effectively, onboarding goes on continually ...
Sophie Boler | 00;14;10;04 - 00;14;11;04
Forever.
James McDevitt | 00;14;11;24 - 00;14;37;17
It frankly does. Yes. I mean, what we’re effectively doing, if you think about it, and if you do it properly, you spend all that time and effort hiring somebody, you spend all that time and effort getting them on board. You find, you spend all that time and effort training them how to do a job. And then if you stop, if you just stop, that person will become disengaged.
James McDevitt | 00;14;37;17 - 00;15;00;12
They will become ineffective. They will leave the organization. And you have to do all of it again. You are effectively, good practice is to effectively continually to re-recruit your new hire as if you’re trying to get them pumped up, as if you’re trying to get them to do their job well and trying to get them engaged and want to be there and want to get out of bed in the morning and come to work, so it doesn’t end. If the employee doesn’t feel the love, then you know what?
James McDevitt | 00;15;00;12 - 00;15;01;26
Someone else will get them to feel the love.
Sophie Boler | 00;15;02;20 - 00;15;15;19
And you mentioned generational differences quickly in your last statement, and there’s been a lot of talk about generational differences. So how does this really come into play in the onboarding process?
James McDevitt | 00;15;15;27 - 00;15;46;18
Sure. So, as you said, generational differences, perhaps for the first time, significant generational differences in place across society with the boomers and the Gen Xers and the millennials, sometimes it’s hard to keep up with them. I think the important thing to remember, though, is, is that people are different, people are individual and whatever strategy you have, it should be individualized to the person. As I mentioned before, have a plan, have a structure, but make sure it’s individualized to that person.
James McDevitt | 00;15;46;26 - 00;16;12;12
I think some of the key elements are a strong communications plan, making sure that you communicate clearly with the new hire, the employee so that they understand, give them the opportunity to ask questions. Don’t just tell them; communication is two-way. Have an inclusive culture, so they feel part of the team. And I think, something I haven’t really mentioned before, but I think the role of the hiring manager is really key and I think lots of studies out there show that the relationship between the hiring manager and employee is crucial.
James McDevitt | 00;16;12;26 - 00;16;28;18
The hiring manager needs to be part of the pre-boarding, needs to be part of the onboarding, needs to be part of the orientation. And they really need to build that relationship with the new hire. And if that is successful, regardless of the generation, I think I think it will be a successful experience.
Sophie Boler | 00;16;29;15 - 00;16;42;00
So what are your thoughts on having a new hire get involved in a big project right away? Does that give them a sense of responsibility right off the bat or should you steer away from that? What are your thoughts on that?
James McDevitt | 00;16;42;05 - 00;17;02;27
I think I’ll go back to the individual role of the individual again. I think it has to be individualized. There will be some cases where you have someone who has got the skills, got the experience, got the knowledge and can jump straight, in and you have other people that may not be there yet and that’s okay. And you will know that when you hire them through the process, and people get hired to do different things.
James McDevitt | 00;17;03;12 - 00;17;20;00
So I would say it needs to be down to the individual and I would say the key is to set the new hire up to succeed. Do not set them up to fail. So if they don’t have the skills and the capabilities and experience to take on the big project, take it slow.
Sophie Boler | 00;17;20;15 - 00;17;39;18
Okay, good advice. So here at MRA, we assign mentors to all of our new hires and they’re really there to just kind of be a leader and for the new hires to go to if they have questions and be a role model. So what are some suggestions you have for mentors of new hires?
James McDevitt | 00;17;40;01 - 00;18;02;06
Sure. So I think when we talk about mentors, there’s really two roles that can really help a new hire come on board and be effective quickly. There’s the mentor and there’s the buddy. The buddy is a more informal process. Someone that can help answer all the silly questions like, “Where’s the bathrooms and what time do, you know,…”
James McDevitt | 00;18;02;06 - 00;18;10;02
“My boss said this. What did he or she really mean to say?” Particularly someone with local accents and variations. “What did he say? I don’t quite understand what he said!”
James McDevitt | 00;18;12;13 - 00;18;36;15
All those silly questions that you may not want to ask your manager. And that’s, you know, that’s fine. So someone that goes to lunch with you, someone that explains, “Oh, this is what we did and this is how we do it,” someone that you can bounce thoughts off, that’s really important. The role of a buddy has been proved to show a real success in terms of transitioning somebody in the workplace, talk about being inclusive, talk about being part of a team, a buddy can really help that process go through.
James McDevitt | 00;18;36;15 - 00;19;05;16
A mentor is probably more of a formal process and traditionally tends to be someone maybe a bit more senior, is more structured, someone that maybe has more experience in the role, that can coach and guide maybe someone with less experience, and help them with career advice and suggestions on the role. And a buddy isn’t necessarily someone you would go and ask, “Well I tried to do the job this way and it didn’t work. What do you think? How could it be done differently?”
James McDevitt | 00;19;05;16 - 00;19;21;27
Whereas a mentor could play that role. “So I have this idea. We did it in my last company and it really worked really well there. I don’t want to go to my manager and say this right now because I don’t know if it’s worked and failed or if it’s been done here before or not.”
James McDevitt | 00;19;22;08 - 00;19;44;10
A mentor can help be a guide with some of those questions. So I think both have a have a role to play. And previous organizations, we’ve certainly invested a lot of time in the buddy system, for example, and we hand-selected individuals and even trained them in some ways on how to be a buddy and what to look for and understand adult learning and how do people learn.
James McDevitt | 00;19;44;10 - 00;19;51;14
And some people are very visual, some people are not. And that’s all important to be a successful buddy.
Sophie Boler | 00;19;52;02 - 00;20;06;06
And I think the buddy system and mentor system has really helped me personally too, as a newer employee. But what are some ways that a company can provide this continuous onboarding support that you mentioned?
James McDevitt | 00;20;06;07 - 00;20;31;06
So as I said, onboarding doesn’t end on day three or day four. It’s really continuous. And this is where companies who succeed build cultures where personal development and continuous improvement is part of the culture, where the manager sits down with the employee on a regular basis and not just once a year because it’s annual review time, because someone in HR sent them a form and said, “We have to fill this form out.”
James McDevitt | 00;20;31;20 - 00;20;51;25
No, it’s a real dynamic process where we sit down as a team, as teams, sit down with individuals to say, “Okay, how’s it going? Was it working? Last time we met, we were going to do this. Did it work? Did it not work? What did you learn? How would you do it differently?” Asking the questions, “What help do you need? What do you want to do?”
James McDevitt | 00;20;52;04 - 00;21;17;06
Really important questions. In my role in the past, managers have come to me and said, “Well, I think so-and-so would be a really good person for this role.” And I said, “Well, have you talked to them about it?” No, that’s crazy talk. Why would I do that?” But in a culture of personal development and continuous improvement, people would know what does Sophie want to do in the next couple of years.
James McDevitt | 00;21;17;06 - 00;21;37;05
Where do her interests lie? Is she looking to build on the creative side, is she looking to go into management roles? Is she looking to change functions? I think that’s all really important and I think successful personal development, continuous improvement programs are again, it’s not just about going on a formal training class.
James McDevitt | 00;21;37;15 - 00;21;42;16
I’m going to send somebody who wants to be a manager, I’m going to send them to a manager class. Yeah. It doesn’t quite work like that.
James McDevitt | 00;21;43;06 - 00;22;07;21
Much, much more than that. So, so talk about on-the-job learning. Talk about skills and experience that you can pick up on the job. If you’re looking to go into management or supervision, maybe you can take a leadership role in a project, cross-functional project. What we’re going to ask you to take a leadership role here where you’re working a cross-function maybe it’s in a matrix environment where no one person can say yes, but five people can say no.
James McDevitt | 00;22;08;10 - 00;22;31;12
Work on those skills—meetings, working, pulling meetings together, agendas together, keeping meetings on time. Those are all important skills that you need to learn once you’re in management. So broaden the mind, broaden your experience. In some organizations, they’re set up in such a way that you can actually move between functions quite easily.
James McDevitt | 00;22;31;12 – 00;22;53;09
And MRA, for example, is one of those as an HR organization, we have a lot of HR professionals and we have a lot of people in blended roles. They might do some compensation, they might do some recruitment, they might do some learning and development, and a lot of those roles are built on the fact that we’ve had conversations with those members of the team who’ve expressed an interest—
James McDevitt | 00;22;53;09 - 00;23;09;22
“I’m interested in doing this”—and we figure out, does that work? Does that person have the right skill set, and if so, with a bit of coaching and mentoring, to your point, we can make it happen. So I think the key is regular one-on-ones, proactive discussions on what it is you want to do, what help you need to get there.
Sophie Boler | 00;23;10;20 - 00;23;29;26
And everybody wants to be an employer of choice. And I think a good onboarding and orientation process is one way to be that employer of choice. So you really want a new hire to go home after their first day of work and share their day with their family, their friends, and be like, “Wow, this is awesome. I had a great first day.”
Sophie Boler | 00;23;30;02 - 00;23;55;04
And that will encourage other future candidates hopefully to join the company as well. But on the opposite side, if they go home and complain, nobody’s going to want to join that company. They’re not going to want to come back. So like you said, these processes are key and it’s all about leaving a good first impression. So do you have any last impressions that you want to leave our listeners with today?
James McDevitt | 00;23;55;05 - 00;24;13;29
Absolutely. And you made the point that a bad orientation or a bad onboarding, certainly these days, employees will not stick around. They don’t stick around. The studies are out there. The statistics are out there. The results are in. People don’t stick around. So what can you do to make them stick around? And we’ve talked about some of the ideas.
James McDevitt | 00;24;13;29 - 00;24;27;25
I think at the end of the day, it’s a bit of an old cliche with an employer of choice, but especially these days, I think it’s absolutely true. Employees have a choice. When they get out of bed in the morning, they have a choice. They can come to work for you or frankly, they can go and work for somebody else.
James McDevitt | 00;24;28;03 - 00;24;46;18
Our role is to get them to make the choice to come and work for us on day one and on day two and on day three and in year four, and in year five. That’s why it’s a continual process, it’s a continual recruitment. We want them engaged. We want them to feel part of the team.
James McDevitt | 00;24;46;18 - 00;24;48;08
We want them to come into work in the morning.
Sophie Boler | 00;24;48;17 - 00;25;10;17
Absolutely. Well, thank you for all of your advice today. I mean, it was great. And thank you for being on the show, too, and really continuing the candidate experience talk and onboarding process. It’s something that’s never going away, like you said, but something organizations really need to stay on top of. So we will be continuing this conversation next week.
Sophie Boler | 00;25;11;13 - 00;25;34;15
But if you have any further questions or just want to get connected with James, we have linked his LinkedIn profile in the show notes below along with some other resources that you can take a look at. But James, thank you again. I had fun. It was good talking to you. But other than that, we will see you next week!
OUTRO | 00;25;35;01 - 00;25;54;06
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.