30 minute THRIVE

Spring Training: It’s Time to Win!

Description:
It's time to win with training! Mike Connell, MRA Learning & Development Instructor, is here to ensure you are engaging in the current top-of-the-line training practices. We'll go over training opportunities for companies, how to keep people engaged during training sessions, and how the evolution of training affects you and your success. 
Key Takeaways:
"If you want to have success, figure out what things you need to do every day that will lead to that success." 
Keep generations in mind when training - think about background, experience, and motivators. 
Training is a two-way street! Participants have as much as an active role as the instructor. 
Resources:
Learning & Development 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Mike Connell 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Mike Connell 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22Powered by MRA, the Management Association
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
00:00:12:23 - 00:00:14:18MRA has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:15We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:23:01Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:23:01 - 00:00:25:17Welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:25:17 - 00:00:29:18We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to talk about training to win today
00:00:29:18 - 00:00:31:00with Mike Connell.
00:00:31:00 - 00:00:33:20He's our learning and development instructor here at MRA.
00:00:34:04 - 00:00:37:15And if you aren't familiar with Mike, he has over 30 years
00:00:37:15 - 00:00:41:14of professional experience and has been an entrepreneur and manager
00:00:41:14 - 00:00:45:19in manufacturing, banking and asset management, real estate,
00:00:46:03 - 00:00:49:22franchise restaurants and powersports dealerships.
00:00:49:22 - 00:00:53:23And in addition to being a learning and development instructor at MRA,
00:00:54:07 - 00:00:58:06Mike has also coached high school and college football for over 20 years.
00:00:58:15 - 00:01:01:06So he comes with a lot of experience and today
00:01:01:06 - 00:01:04:06he'll really be highlighting his coaching and training background.
00:01:04:15 - 00:01:06:21So thanks for being on the podcast today, Mike.
00:01:06:21 - 00:01:07:22Excited to talk with you.
00:01:07:22 - 00:01:10:06I am as well. Cool.
00:01:10:06 - 00:01:11:05Well, I want to start off
00:01:11:05 - 00:01:15:07by asking how you really incorporate your coaching background to your training.
00:01:15:13 - 00:01:19:03I think the thing that's probably closest between them is I'm
00:01:19:03 - 00:01:22:06a proponent of individualization, so
00:01:23:22 - 00:01:25:01even though, you know,
00:01:25:01 - 00:01:27:20I might have 60 football players
00:01:29:00 - 00:01:31:16and you know, generally as a football coach
00:01:32:05 - 00:01:36:02between high school and college 15 to 22 year old young men.
00:01:36:15 - 00:01:39:07So a lot of similarities in that regard.
00:01:39:07 - 00:01:40:12But still,
00:01:40:12 - 00:01:44:16you know, kind of individualizing what they're teaching, what we're doing.
00:01:45:09 - 00:01:46:18Same thing in the classroom.
00:01:46:18 - 00:01:51:22You know, I obviously I've got 20 people in their managers or leads.
00:01:52:17 - 00:01:55:17They all in different backgrounds, experiences, things like that.
00:01:55:17 - 00:01:59:01So I try to incorporate a lot of things that will
00:01:59:17 - 00:02:03:15potentially provide the learning for everyone there.
00:02:03:15 - 00:02:08:21So flexing the different communication styles,
00:02:08:21 - 00:02:11:10you know, just different folks, how they communicate,
00:02:11:23 - 00:02:15:12motivation, you know, why they're there and what they're trying to get out of it.
00:02:15:12 - 00:02:18:12And so I'm trying to figure out, you know, what that is
00:02:18:14 - 00:02:21:13and give it to them whenever possible.
00:02:21:13 - 00:02:22:20Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:22:20 - 00:02:25:14So we'll be talking about coaching and training today.
00:02:25:14 - 00:02:29:13So can you kind of give a little overview on the difference between
00:02:29:13 - 00:02:32:13coaching and training coaching?
00:02:32:13 - 00:02:34:19It’s funny because probably in the last ten years
00:02:34:19 - 00:02:38:03I see all these books on leadership and management.
00:02:38:03 - 00:02:40:22It's coaching coaching coach at your own term.
00:02:40:22 - 00:02:45:05And I think a lot of ways it becomes the catch all, you know, where it's like
00:02:45:11 - 00:02:49:04that's sort of everything we say, Well, that's conflict management or that's
00:02:49:07 - 00:02:50:16where everything's kind of coaching.
00:02:51:15 - 00:02:52:15I would say
00:02:52:15 - 00:02:57:07probably the biggest commonality in the way I view them is,
00:02:57:07 - 00:03:01:17you know, whether it's coaching or training, it's making someone better.
00:03:01:22 - 00:03:06:00Number one is whether it's football or management training, it's
00:03:06:00 - 00:03:07:11participation sports.
00:03:07:11 - 00:03:12:08So I always tell all the classes before we begin, I have two rules.
00:03:12:18 - 00:03:17:08So and the first one is this is participation, right?
00:03:17:08 - 00:03:18:21This is not a spectator sport.
00:03:18:21 - 00:03:20:12So we're going to participate.
00:03:20:12 - 00:03:24:08So obviously football, that's the key to their spectators,
00:03:24:08 - 00:03:26:11but they're just not on the team. Right.
00:03:26:11 - 00:03:28:11Very similar in that regard.
00:03:28:20 - 00:03:32:23When people are trained, they need to have responsibility
00:03:32:23 - 00:03:34:09for their role in it as well.
00:03:34:09 - 00:03:37:09I'm no different than a player, You know, in executing, so
00:03:38:07 - 00:03:40:18I think that's similar in those regards.
00:03:40:19 - 00:03:42:02Yeah, for sure.
00:03:42:02 - 00:03:45:19When we're talking about training, it's really evolved over the years.
00:03:45:19 - 00:03:51:18We're now we have remote training options and in-person and hybrid options even.
00:03:51:18 - 00:03:55:11So how do you think it's really evolved over the years
00:03:55:11 - 00:03:58:17and has it become more of a necessity now, would you say?
00:03:58:17 - 00:04:00:13Or what are your thoughts on that?
00:04:00:13 - 00:04:04:09Well, so before I was a trainer, when I was a manager,
00:04:04:09 - 00:04:07:09especially a young manager, somebody thought it was a really good idea
00:04:07:09 - 00:04:10:21to make me a manager in my early twenties, I don’t know what they were thinking.
00:04:10:21 - 00:04:13:02That's a great idea. To tell you the truth.
00:04:13:04 - 00:04:18:06So, I mean, what it was is it's very similar to a lot of people.
00:04:18:06 - 00:04:22:00I, I had success in a role.
00:04:22:02 - 00:04:25:22So you know, typical is okay well you're good at doing the job,
00:04:25:22 - 00:04:29:22so why don't you lead Some people do without necessarily
00:04:29:22 - 00:04:34:05recognizing totally different skill set, leading people versus
00:04:34:10 - 00:04:38:21you know, I was good at selling who's good at some of the things I did there.
00:04:38:21 - 00:04:39:12And so
00:04:40:14 - 00:04:41:02I think as
00:04:41:02 - 00:04:45:19far as training and evolving in that, you know, I've been the trainer here
00:04:45:19 - 00:04:48:22for five years and so, I mean, we just went through code.
00:04:49:03 - 00:04:51:23So obviously there is some evolution there.
00:04:52:02 - 00:04:57:03We were essentially a 99.9% in person training operation
00:04:57:11 - 00:04:59:21to going 100% virtual.
00:05:00:04 - 00:05:03:15And we like to joke in our department that we have a five year plan
00:05:03:22 - 00:05:08:21to get to maybe 25 to 30% virtual.
00:05:09:05 - 00:05:14:09And the five year plan became a five week plan and it went 100%.
00:05:14:09 - 00:05:16:22So I would say that was obviously a big thing.
00:05:16:22 - 00:05:21:07But I think even prior to that and over the years, I was always,
00:05:21:18 - 00:05:25:09I would say, like a learning junkie, something I learned from my dad
00:05:25:20 - 00:05:30:16if he was the most unbelievable, self-taught person I've ever.
00:05:30:22 - 00:05:33:18I mean, he was always just learning and open to that.
00:05:33:18 - 00:05:36:20And he was he was a self-taught engineer, which is not very typical.
00:05:37:09 - 00:05:39:04And so and he was an entrepreneur.
00:05:39:04 - 00:05:40:22And, you know, his
00:05:40:22 - 00:05:44:08dad wasn't a business owner or anything, so he had to learn a lot of that.
00:05:44:18 - 00:05:49:01So I think probably the biggest difference and I even hear it
00:05:49:01 - 00:05:53:12now, some of the older participants will come in, our class will offer about
00:05:54:18 - 00:05:56:22they'll they'll refer to the classes like a seminar.
00:05:57:04 - 00:05:59:16They'll use certain weird lingo. Yeah.
00:05:59:17 - 00:06:04:14And also that well, like this seminar, I'm like Jay or, you know, it's
00:06:04:14 - 00:06:08:01sort of like the webinar saying people will call our Zoom training webinar.
00:06:08:01 - 00:06:09:01I'm like, This is not a webinar.
00:06:09:01 - 00:06:11:03And so for everything.
00:06:11:03 - 00:06:13:17So I think a lot of it is people are used to more
00:06:13:20 - 00:06:16:22in the past, maybe a little bit more of the seminar thing
00:06:16:22 - 00:06:21:19where there was a spectator element and we just that's not our brand.
00:06:21:19 - 00:06:25:13We don't, you know, adult learning methodology, right?
00:06:25:13 - 00:06:26:20You involve the learner.
00:06:26:20 - 00:06:29:15So I think
00:06:29:15 - 00:06:31:17I would have loved a lot more of that.
00:06:31:17 - 00:06:33:21I got value training.
00:06:33:21 - 00:06:35:00I did that.
00:06:35:00 - 00:06:38:19Several things that I actually teach now that we share at MRA
00:06:38:21 - 00:06:42:05are things that I learned, you know, from folks long time ago.
00:06:42:10 - 00:06:44:08But I think it's a little different how we.
00:06:44:08 - 00:06:45:12Yeah, talking about.
00:06:45:12 - 00:06:48:16And you just mentioned your older participants
00:06:49:00 - 00:06:52:15and we've actually had a lot of conversation on the podcast.
00:06:52:20 - 00:06:54:06Generational differences.
00:06:54:06 - 00:06:57:08And so how does that really play a role in training?
00:06:57:08 - 00:07:01:01Like how how do you train for different generations?
00:07:01:09 - 00:07:04:22I like to say with generations, if you actually lay out
00:07:04:22 - 00:07:09:05everything that we think is generational and I used to do this
00:07:09:05 - 00:07:13:00activity in the classroom, we had a class where we can teach
00:07:13:00 - 00:07:16:06and specifically on generation and people would go around
00:07:16:06 - 00:07:17:11and they would write things
00:07:17:11 - 00:07:20:19they think of with different generations on flip charts.
00:07:21:03 - 00:07:24:00And then I would have them go back around and I would say,
00:07:24:00 - 00:07:28:06I want you to mark next to each one what's actually
00:07:29:01 - 00:07:31:19what you think is a true generational difference
00:07:32:04 - 00:07:35:14versus mature and not maturity
00:07:35:14 - 00:07:38:21and immature versus mature, but just like time on the earth.
00:07:38:23 - 00:07:41:11Yeah, mature and experience and all that.
00:07:41:20 - 00:07:46:06And it was crazy because we would have 75% of the chart would be mature
00:07:46:20 - 00:07:50:12where yeah that's not really right You know, you take my baby boomers,
00:07:50:14 - 00:07:53:16you know, we think of certain things that we would say younger all, well,
00:07:53:19 - 00:07:56:15you know rebellious teen will listen to authority and all that Well,
00:07:56:21 - 00:07:58:22anybody paying attention to the 1960s,
00:08:00:02 - 00:08:02:21it's a lot of stuff of rebellion and that going on.
00:08:02:21 - 00:08:06:17So I think a lot of the stuff we think is
00:08:06:17 - 00:08:10:01generational has more to do with just how much experience.
00:08:10:08 - 00:08:15:07So when people come in the classroom with some of those differences,
00:08:15:07 - 00:08:17:12I think a lot of it is
00:08:19:04 - 00:08:22:16a lot of it is sort of their expectations and experience.
00:08:22:23 - 00:08:27:19And so what I try to do is, number one, just understand.
00:08:27:19 - 00:08:30:09And now it's a little easier for me because I do have a little bit of that
00:08:30:09 - 00:08:33:22shared experience with, you know, folks who've been around for a while.
00:08:33:22 - 00:08:37:14And so I remember the command and control bosses,
00:08:38:00 - 00:08:41:16the ones that come in and I say that because I said so.
00:08:42:15 - 00:08:45:20And whereas younger people, that's maybe a little more foreign,
00:08:46:02 - 00:08:48:16you know, it's a little bit more collaborative environments.
00:08:48:16 - 00:08:52:03And then and so just sort of working to
00:08:53:14 - 00:08:55:10some might say, to
00:08:55:10 - 00:08:58:19try to bridge that gap is
00:08:58:19 - 00:09:02:21I don't really necessarily buy into the old school, new school.
00:09:02:21 - 00:09:03:22You know, we hear that a lot.
00:09:03:22 - 00:09:06:03Like, yeah, old school, new school.
00:09:06:03 - 00:09:09:16What I say is there's things we've gotten away with in the past, right?
00:09:09:16 - 00:09:14:08So when unemployment is double digits, people move jobs.
00:09:14:08 - 00:09:15:09It's a little different, right?
00:09:15:09 - 00:09:17:09We haven't had that for the last few years.
00:09:17:17 - 00:09:21:10Definitely an employee market in terms of their services.
00:09:21:12 - 00:09:24:05And so we do things different because of that.
00:09:24:07 - 00:09:27:10I think good leadership has always been good leadership right
00:09:27:12 - 00:09:28:06through throughout time.
00:09:28:06 - 00:09:31:02And so I try to bring, no matter what the generation or try
00:09:31:02 - 00:09:34:09to bring the training back to what's what's just the right thing we should do.
00:09:34:09 - 00:09:36:00Yeah, that's a good point.
00:09:36:00 - 00:09:40:12So this next question is probably a hard one to answer because there's probably
00:09:40:12 - 00:09:45:09so many things, but what is really your favorite part about training
00:09:47:06 - 00:09:47:21or coaching?
00:09:47:21 - 00:09:49:11Others. sure.
00:09:49:11 - 00:09:51:18I like the people
00:09:52:20 - 00:09:54:12I would love to say.
00:09:54:12 - 00:09:56:16So I've been in a lot of different industries.
00:09:56:16 - 00:09:58:14It's when you read my bio.
00:09:58:14 - 00:10:01:12Yeah. Wow, insane.
00:10:01:12 - 00:10:04:06Who would ever have a career like that, right?
00:10:05:06 - 00:10:09:07And part of it is so looking back, I'm not a, you know, the widget.
00:10:09:07 - 00:10:12:06And is that still a term? Yeah, right.
00:10:12:14 - 00:10:13:14I'm not a widget.
00:10:13:14 - 00:10:15:18I can get excited about anything.
00:10:15:20 - 00:10:19:16I got an economics professor gave us this, you know, thing.
00:10:19:16 - 00:10:22:22It's how a pencils made and and a particular reason
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:25:01why you had to read that book. It's like two pages.
00:10:25:01 - 00:10:26:07It's. It's amazing.
00:10:26:07 - 00:10:28:23I mean, there's 17 different products and all this.
00:10:29:06 - 00:10:31:04I'm get excited about anything.
00:10:31:04 - 00:10:36:05I've always considered myself on the people side, on the relational side.
00:10:36:12 - 00:10:38:07And so obviously that's
00:10:38:07 - 00:10:42:12why I moved into management, you know, business ownership and that,
00:10:43:01 - 00:10:46:08but not because I'm I can get passionate about any product.
00:10:46:08 - 00:10:48:12For me, the thing that's constant is people.
00:10:48:12 - 00:10:51:08And so with training, it's the same thing.
00:10:51:08 - 00:10:54:09I get as much sometimes
00:10:54:09 - 00:10:56:22more from them than than vice versa.
00:10:57:15 - 00:11:00:04I love that it's different.
00:11:00:04 - 00:11:03:00Every year is different. People in the classroom.
00:11:03:00 - 00:11:07:10I go out and do on sites at companies and get to meet people and just,
00:11:07:21 - 00:11:12:00you know, and so many similarities at same time running, conflict,
00:11:12:04 - 00:11:15:05all things, miscommunication, all that.
00:11:15:12 - 00:11:17:13But just the people element is so different.
00:11:17:13 - 00:11:19:12So I yeah, I love that part.
00:11:19:12 - 00:11:24:05And kind of going off of this question do you have any fun stories you can share
00:11:24:05 - 00:11:29:17like success stories from people you've helped or coached or trained?
00:11:29:17 - 00:11:33:06My favorite thing to have is when people contact me
00:11:33:12 - 00:11:35:22like linkedIn to enter through email and they're like,
00:11:36:17 - 00:11:40:19not even like, Hey, it was a great class, but I have this problem.
00:11:41:00 - 00:11:41:17Can you help me?
00:11:41:17 - 00:11:43:15You know, just interested what you think.
00:11:43:15 - 00:11:46:09And I eat that stuff up. I love it.
00:11:47:14 - 00:11:49:22And I
00:11:50:05 - 00:11:54:05probably the one that to this day, the class I taught that had
00:11:54:05 - 00:11:58:19the most universal is not what you would necessarily think
00:11:58:19 - 00:12:01:21because you think conflict management or coaching, you know, this kind of stuff.
00:12:02:03 - 00:12:05:22So I had a company i did training for and their HR Manager
00:12:05:22 - 00:12:10:15actually was in a class we teach here and half day class called business email.
00:12:10:19 - 00:12:11:08Okay.
00:12:11:08 - 00:12:14:11And he was in there and he comes up to me at the end of class, he goes,
00:12:14:11 - 00:12:19:03we have to do this in our company cuz we got lots issues, right?
00:12:19:04 - 00:12:19:14Yeah.
00:12:19:14 - 00:12:23:21And I would say you get offenders, just people who do like this stuff,
00:12:23:22 - 00:12:25:18like the reply all yeah, right.
00:12:25:18 - 00:12:29:20From everything or CC everybody in the company is we got lot.
00:12:30:06 - 00:12:33:01So it's just you know can you come out and he said, but here's the challenge.
00:12:33:01 - 00:12:35:20We have 75 people I want to put through this training
00:12:36:07 - 00:12:38:14and our room fits 25
00:12:39:01 - 00:12:43:12and I don't have the budget to do three half days.
00:12:43:12 - 00:12:45:14Can you do a one hour version?
00:12:45:14 - 00:12:47:19I was like, that's that's a lift.
00:12:47:19 - 00:12:48:12No, that's.
00:12:48:12 - 00:12:50:13A little bit sorry, Let me see.
00:12:50:13 - 00:12:51:13I'll work it out.
00:12:51:13 - 00:12:54:20It's a little more presentation, but there's still some interaction stuff.
00:12:54:23 - 00:12:56:16But I'm like, okay, let's hit the highlights.
00:12:56:16 - 00:13:00:15And we went through I got done with that class
00:13:00:15 - 00:13:04:07and I imagine there was four, six months after another company
00:13:04:07 - 00:13:07:02also sent some of their other managers to other training.
00:13:07:02 - 00:13:11:12I heard more positive feedback about a business email class.
00:13:11:14 - 00:13:15:23Yeah, Mike It's changed the culture, how people aren’t doing the stuff
00:13:15:23 - 00:13:18:04that drives me crazy. Yeah. Anymore. Right?
00:13:18:08 - 00:13:19:07It's all these things.
00:13:19:07 - 00:13:21:18And I thought, well, it's communication, right?
00:13:21:18 - 00:13:22:14I mean, even though we call it
00:13:22:14 - 00:13:25:09business email, it's really like communication issue.
00:13:25:14 - 00:13:29:10And so I would say I get a lot of great feedback, but that class to this day
00:13:29:10 - 00:13:33:07just stands out as the one probably like you changed their company culture.
00:13:33:10 - 00:13:34:12Well, that's got to be a great feeling though.
00:13:34:12 - 00:13:36:18You'll all be like, What was it?
00:13:36:18 - 00:13:37:09It does.
00:13:37:09 - 00:13:39:22just of all the classes. Business email.
00:13:39:22 - 00:13:42:15One hour presentation, right?
00:13:43:01 - 00:13:46:04Yeah, well, it has a great effect on people. So.
00:13:46:23 - 00:13:50:16So how do you really keep people engaged in your trainings?
00:13:50:16 - 00:13:52:15How do you keep them interesting?
00:13:52:15 - 00:13:56:08Like you said, some of them are half days, some of them are full days.
00:13:56:08 - 00:14:00:16How do you keep people energetic to learn throughout the day?
00:14:01:21 - 00:14:04:06Well, one thing and you can probably if you talk
00:14:04:06 - 00:14:08:02to any of the instructors around here, we would all say the same thing.
00:14:08:02 - 00:14:11:18We're tired at the end of the day, so you have to bring your energy.
00:14:11:18 - 00:14:13:10Yeah, that's a big part.
00:14:13:10 - 00:14:16:03And one of the things for me and this is just something
00:14:16:03 - 00:14:20:06I bring from management, I'm not necessarily that, you know,
00:14:21:07 - 00:14:24:10hi, you're bouncing off the walls and I'm not.
00:14:24:15 - 00:14:26:00Eeyore either, right?
00:14:26:00 - 00:14:28:01I try to be pretty consistent.
00:14:28:22 - 00:14:33:15I think the biggest thing is, is I'm having conversations with people.
00:14:34:01 - 00:14:38:01So probably the biggest thing I would say in in the sessions
00:14:38:01 - 00:14:41:11I do is we're just we're working through material.
00:14:41:18 - 00:14:42:06Right.
00:14:42:06 - 00:14:48:00But I told the classes, you know, I want all the questions.
00:14:48:23 - 00:14:51:20I don't want everybody leaving here with something that didn't get asked.
00:14:52:06 - 00:14:54:09And I tell them this, trust me, I'm good enough.
00:14:54:09 - 00:14:55:13I'll get us back on track.
00:14:55:13 - 00:14:55:18Yeah.
00:14:55:18 - 00:14:58:03And hopefully, you know, we'll get there.
00:14:58:17 - 00:15:01:23But the biggest thing is, you know, it's interactive.
00:15:02:03 - 00:15:07:18So we are I'm asking questions, looking for those interactions,
00:15:07:18 - 00:15:12:23those answers we do a lot of obviously with adult learning, we do activities.
00:15:13:01 - 00:15:13:08Right.
00:15:13:08 - 00:15:16:04Well, I just start a class this week on conflict management.
00:15:16:04 - 00:15:20:10I literally hand them scenarios and sit down in groups
00:15:20:10 - 00:15:25:14and they role play out conflict and so we do
00:15:25:14 - 00:15:28:22a lot of things that keep it interactive and then we debrief those things.
00:15:28:22 - 00:15:31:01But I think the big thing is just,
00:15:31:06 - 00:15:34:17you know, don't to me, it's not a stage anymore.
00:15:34:17 - 00:15:35:13It's not an event.
00:15:35:13 - 00:15:37:13It's just it's training.
00:15:37:13 - 00:15:38:11It's coaching.
00:15:38:11 - 00:15:41:06It's no different than I would do one on one with somebody.
00:15:41:13 - 00:15:43:04It's just with a. Group of people.
00:15:43:04 - 00:15:43:21Yeah.
00:15:43:21 - 00:15:45:21I like the point that you brought up on.
00:15:46:19 - 00:15:49:19The participants have to bring their energy to like it's
00:15:49:19 - 00:15:54:02a two way thing, you know, like if you want to attend a training,
00:15:54:02 - 00:15:57:17you got to be ready for it and do your homework and prepare for it.
00:15:57:17 - 00:16:00:10And if you want to get a good outcome from it.
00:16:00:10 - 00:16:01:17So that's a good point.
00:16:01:17 - 00:16:06:18Well, they're managing people, so you're not going to sit down and coach
00:16:07:04 - 00:16:11:01one of your employees just, hey, come on in here.
00:16:11:01 - 00:16:13:10Let's just have a random conversation.
00:16:13:10 - 00:16:14:21You have a plan.
00:16:14:21 - 00:16:16:20So I have a plan when I walk in the class.
00:16:16:20 - 00:16:20:15But at the same time, my plan includes a lot of flexibility
00:16:20:15 - 00:16:24:20because every class is different and I think people can tell
00:16:24:20 - 00:16:28:02when you have that, people can tell the difference between can training.
00:16:28:02 - 00:16:30:22And I think that's really MRA’s this is what we do.
00:16:30:22 - 00:16:33:17Our instructor staff is unbelievable.
00:16:33:23 - 00:16:39:09We, we, we might teach the same material, but I don't know that
00:16:39:09 - 00:16:44:03we ever teach it exactly the same way, because every class is different.
00:16:44:03 - 00:16:46:22As we close out our episode for today,
00:16:47:12 - 00:16:49:22the title of this episode is Spring Training.
00:16:49:22 - 00:16:51:08It's time to Win.
00:16:51:08 - 00:16:54:23So how would you say that you train to win?
00:16:56:03 - 00:16:58:06That is an interesting question. Yes.
00:16:58:20 - 00:17:02:05So I've never had winning as a goal.
00:17:02:05 - 00:17:04:00I actually think it’s terrible.
00:17:04:00 - 00:17:06:21Winning as a result, training to win,
00:17:07:11 - 00:17:10:04managing to win, whatever you are.
00:17:10:04 - 00:17:11:23PARTICIPANT Anybody in it.
00:17:11:23 - 00:17:15:07What I tell them is do the things that lead to winning.
00:17:16:04 - 00:17:17:05In football.
00:17:17:05 - 00:17:19:09There are situations where
00:17:20:21 - 00:17:24:00at the end of the game we lost a game
00:17:24:07 - 00:17:27:10and I will tell the team you played a tremendous game
00:17:28:06 - 00:17:32:21and there are other games where we won by 38 points and I'm not happy
00:17:33:10 - 00:17:37:13because we should have won by 50 because just level and the talent there.
00:17:38:00 - 00:17:43:06I don't ever gauge it on anything but for my people, right?
00:17:43:06 - 00:17:46:17So because I know if I'm a good manager or if I'm a good coach,
00:17:46:17 - 00:17:50:21I know what the levels and abilities of my people are.
00:17:51:03 - 00:17:54:20So sometimes the scoreboard is your worst enemy
00:17:55:02 - 00:17:57:05when it comes to coaching or teaching
00:17:57:08 - 00:17:59:07because you look up and you're like, Hey, we won the game.
00:17:59:07 - 00:18:03:17It's great and it's like, But does that mean you actually did your best, right?
00:18:03:17 - 00:18:06:00There are some situations where in football
00:18:06:00 - 00:18:08:01you just weren’t talented, right?
00:18:08:06 - 00:18:12:22There's some cases where I've coached employees that are so easy to coach.
00:18:13:04 - 00:18:16:12You know, I've coached those rock stars where it's literally
00:18:16:17 - 00:18:21:18I could be a semi terrible manager and they're still gonna have success.
00:18:21:20 - 00:18:22:17And then I've had people
00:18:22:17 - 00:18:27:00that took every ounce of every technique and everything that I knew.
00:18:27:06 - 00:18:31:03So for me, if you want to win, if you want to have success,
00:18:31:10 - 00:18:36:19figure out what things you need to do every day that lead to that.
00:18:37:01 - 00:18:39:15And then what happens, happens.
00:18:39:15 - 00:18:42:14And yeah, do I believe in KPIs and measurements?
00:18:42:14 - 00:18:44:04Yeah, I was in manufacturing.
00:18:44:04 - 00:18:46:19Clearly, we have to have those,
00:18:46:19 - 00:18:50:03but those measurements should be based off of the things you're doing
00:18:50:03 - 00:18:53:18on a regular basis, not just that thing at the end of the year, the month.
00:18:54:01 - 00:18:57:02So it's just, you know, coach your folks,
00:18:57:12 - 00:19:00:00you know, lead by example,
00:19:00:02 - 00:19:03:20do those things all day, every day lead to success.
00:19:04:01 - 00:19:06:06And then scoreboard is what the scoreboard is.
00:19:07:06 - 00:19:09:14Oh, well, that's great advice to anyone.
00:19:09:14 - 00:19:10:22So thank you for that
00:19:10:22 - 00:19:14:19and thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today and sharing your knowledge,
00:19:14:19 - 00:19:18:23your background, your expertise on coaching and training.
00:19:18:23 - 00:19:23:03So if you liked our chat today, make sure to share this episode.
00:19:23:03 - 00:19:27:05Leave a comment review or rating in Consider joining MRA.
00:19:27:05 - 00:19:29:10If you aren't a member already.
00:19:29:10 - 00:19:30:14We have all the resources
00:19:30:14 - 00:19:33:08you need in the show notes below, so take a look at those.
00:19:33:18 - 00:19:38:01And we've also included Mike's bio email and LinkedIn profile.
00:19:38:01 - 00:19:41:16So if you want to get in touch with him, sure, he'd be happy to connect
00:19:42:17 - 00:19:44:00all of them that.
00:19:44:00 - 00:19:46:15Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next week.
00:19:46:22 - 00:19:49:16And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:19:49:17 - 00:19:52:21Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect.
00:19:52:21 - 00:19:54:12For more podcast updates,
00:19:54:12 - 00:19:58:07check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:19:58:07 - 00:20:03:06And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:20:03:07 - 00:20:06:06Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry
00:20:06:06 - 00:20:07:21on the HR conversation.
 

Keeping Your Best: Strategies for Employee Retention

Description:
This episode delves into the importance of training and retaining your greatest assets - your employees. We discuss how investing in employee training and development can enhance their skills and knowledge and increase their job satisfaction and loyalty to the organization.
Our guest for this episode is Jim Morgan, Vice President, Business Development & Workforce Strategies. He shares insights into MRA's March Talent Report, which includes trends from recruiting & retention, top creative HR strategies, c-suite level happenings, and more. 
Whether you are an HR professional, a manager, or an employee looking to enhance your skills and advance your career, this episode offers valuable insights and practical tips for training and retaining your greatest assets. Join us as we explore the importance of investing in your employees and building a culture of continuous learning.
Key Takeaways:
Companies are teaching about the challenges that come with change—letting go of control, getting teams to buy in, communication, not understanding the “why” of the change, thus preparing their staff to handle the disruption.
Generational diversity training is showing up more and more in corporate learning and development.
Some companies have included developing the preferred organizational chart during their strategic planning,and using it as a guide when making key hires.
Resources:
Talent Report + Webinar Series 
March Talent Report + 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jim Morgan 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:21powered by MRA, the Management Association
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
00:00:12:23 - 00:00:14:18MRA has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:16We'll be the first, to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:22:23Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:22:23 - 00:00:25:11Welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:25:17 - 00:00:29:08We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to give you the latest information on
00:00:29:08 - 00:00:34:03all things Talent related is our guest, Jim Morgan, vice president of Workforce
00:00:34:03 - 00:00:38:19Strategies here at MRA, covers the March edition of MRA’s Talent Report.
00:00:39:07 - 00:00:42:18So if you aren't familiar with the monthly talent report, Jim
00:00:42:18 - 00:00:46:17Morgan gives an up to the minute review of what's going on in the world of business
00:00:46:17 - 00:00:51:13with an emphasis on talent, which is based on input from CEOs, CFOs
00:00:51:13 - 00:00:55:19and HR leaders from MRA's 3000 plus member companies,
00:00:56:01 - 00:00:59:221000 roundtable participants and subject matter experts.
00:01:00:10 - 00:01:02:09So thanks for coming on the podcast, Jim.
00:01:02:09 - 00:01:02:23My pleasure.
00:01:02:23 - 00:01:03:18Good to be back.
00:01:03:18 - 00:01:05:16So so let's really kick off
00:01:05:16 - 00:01:09:04the conversation with what's happening in the recruiting retention world.
00:01:09:12 - 00:01:13:18And I know that staying on top of mental health needs is always been a priority
00:01:13:18 - 00:01:14:18for HR.
00:01:14:18 - 00:01:18:18and employers, but it's really a tricky thing to be proactive on.
00:01:19:06 - 00:01:22:06So do you want to really start us off with what you're seeing here?
00:01:22:15 - 00:01:23:05Sure.
00:01:23:05 - 00:01:25:20You know, the mental health, everybody mentions it.
00:01:25:20 - 00:01:28:23But when you're trying to figure out, okay, exactly what is it
00:01:28:23 - 00:01:31:23that we do about that, that's where it gets a little bit more difficult.
00:01:32:09 - 00:01:38:12We're starting to see companies now use wellness and fitness things as incentives
00:01:38:18 - 00:01:43:03for more time off or for additional pay that maybe if you walk
00:01:43:10 - 00:01:47:1310,000 steps a day for ten days in a row, you get a half day off
00:01:47:13 - 00:01:51:10or if you eat right or if you lose weight or you quit smoking,
00:01:51:10 - 00:01:54:16they're trying to figure out how to not necessarily monetize it,
00:01:54:23 - 00:01:58:21but develop it in such a way that now there's real motivation
00:01:58:21 - 00:01:59:18for employee to say,
00:01:59:18 - 00:02:02:19you know what, that's it's worth it for me now to go and do that
00:02:03:01 - 00:02:08:06because the rewards are not just I feel better and maybe I'll be healthier,
00:02:08:06 - 00:02:11:10but it's also like there's a short term to it that, you know,
00:02:11:10 - 00:02:14:20maybe just kind of keeps people motivated for a while to stick with it.
00:02:15:15 - 00:02:19:15That reminds me of those treadmills that you can get for under your desk
00:02:19:15 - 00:02:20:10when you're working.
00:02:20:10 - 00:02:22:05Exactly. Walk your steps.
00:02:22:05 - 00:02:24:20Yeah, well, incentive. Those those are the types of things.
00:02:25:01 - 00:02:29:16So we're seeing companies doing mindfulness breaks and telling people
00:02:29:16 - 00:02:30:15during the course of the day,
00:02:30:15 - 00:02:34:10you know, take a couple of minutes to yourself, take a walk outside.
00:02:34:10 - 00:02:37:18Companies are bringing massage chairs into the office.
00:02:37:18 - 00:02:39:23We do that here.
00:02:39:23 - 00:02:40:22They're, you know,
00:02:40:22 - 00:02:45:15providing now experiences where a lot of people have been giving gym memberships.
00:02:45:15 - 00:02:46:19And that's directly related.
00:02:46:19 - 00:02:50:10But it might be also a Netflix subscription with sort of a note
00:02:50:10 - 00:02:55:12that says, hey, once a week, take 2 hours and just sit back and watch a movie.
00:02:55:22 - 00:02:57:16So I think they're trying to just find things
00:02:57:16 - 00:03:00:18in everyone's lifestyle that those are moments where you
00:03:00:23 - 00:03:03:09you feel good about it and you know, it's good for you.
00:03:03:09 - 00:03:04:23It's what you should do.
00:03:04:23 - 00:03:08:16And then if we can give people a little extra nudge to go do it, you know,
00:03:08:21 - 00:03:10:18hopefully they're happier, they're healthier,
00:03:10:18 - 00:03:12:22and that means they're more productive at work.
00:03:12:22 - 00:03:16:07I know you just listed a few, but do you have any other
00:03:16:07 - 00:03:19:16wellness trends that you are seeing from employers?
00:03:20:07 - 00:03:24:06I think some of it now is around almost training
00:03:24:10 - 00:03:27:20people to understand the wellness and how to take care of them.
00:03:27:20 - 00:03:28:04So, I mean,
00:03:28:04 - 00:03:30:08I can give you a gym membership,
00:03:30:08 - 00:03:33:06but if you never go, it doesn't have a whole lot of value to it.
00:03:33:20 - 00:03:37:12But if we can explain to you what are the good things that happen
00:03:37:12 - 00:03:40:22if you exercise three times a day or if you get out and walk and you do things.
00:03:40:22 - 00:03:45:21So I think the education part of it is becoming a bigger a bigger deal.
00:03:45:21 - 00:03:46:20And a lot of companies
00:03:46:20 - 00:03:50:05have employee assistance programs and they've always had an EAP,
00:03:50:14 - 00:03:53:03but they didn't necessarily tell anybody they had it.
00:03:53:03 - 00:03:56:21It was probably buried in your benefit somewhere that says, Oh, we have an EAP,
00:03:57:07 - 00:04:01:12and some of those cover everything from, you know, doing your will
00:04:01:18 - 00:04:05:08to, you know, how do you identify your beneficiaries
00:04:05:09 - 00:04:08:14and leave money behind to financial planning.
00:04:08:23 - 00:04:12:03And those are all things that are additional stressors in people's lives.
00:04:12:03 - 00:04:15:10And so again, if we can figure out how to help them with some of those
00:04:15:10 - 00:04:18:16things, then, you know, that's helpful to the employee as well.
00:04:18:17 - 00:04:19:01Yeah.
00:04:19:01 - 00:04:24:22And I know you've mentioned before, like for workplace cafes or cafeterias
00:04:24:22 - 00:04:29:11now, employers are replacing some of that food with a healthier option.
00:04:29:17 - 00:04:31:02May not be. Yep.
00:04:31:02 - 00:04:33:11No more late summer apples. Exactly.
00:04:33:23 - 00:04:38:06Or another topic that I'd like to dive into is your talent thinking section,
00:04:38:13 - 00:04:42:00which I know the importance of training and developing employees
00:04:42:00 - 00:04:44:02is really emphasize this month.
00:04:44:02 - 00:04:46:03So can you expand on that a little bit?
00:04:46:20 - 00:04:50:15Yeah, the learning and development, a couple of things have happened there
00:04:50:15 - 00:04:52:05and we'll talk a little bit
00:04:52:05 - 00:04:54:01about emerging leaders, I think, in a minute
00:04:54:01 - 00:04:56:06because that's been another big part of it.
00:04:56:06 - 00:04:59:13But the shift that's taking place in the workforce right now
00:05:00:02 - 00:05:02:05generationally has been a big one.
00:05:02:14 - 00:05:03:01And the
00:05:03:01 - 00:05:06:18expectations of people in the workplace, especially managers and supervisors,
00:05:07:00 - 00:05:08:08have changed.
00:05:08:08 - 00:05:12:05So now you're watching all of the baby boomers begin to exit.
00:05:12:20 - 00:05:16:09Finally, and they're being replaced by smaller,
00:05:16:12 - 00:05:19:22a smaller generation, which means we're dipping into the next one,
00:05:20:18 - 00:05:22:04which are the millennials.
00:05:22:04 - 00:05:26:00And a lot of them are now being pushed into a leadership position
00:05:26:00 - 00:05:28:07earlier than perhaps I would have been.
00:05:28:13 - 00:05:32:09I might have had 20 years on the job to watch other people, as I say,
00:05:32:09 - 00:05:33:16watch other people make mistakes.
00:05:33:16 - 00:05:35:06So I didn't have to make my own
00:05:35:06 - 00:05:37:19and then hopefully be smarter as a leader when I got there.
00:05:38:05 - 00:05:42:19And some of the younger folks are not getting that same amount of time to do it.
00:05:42:19 - 00:05:46:08So there's a training issue around that that we can talk about.
00:05:47:00 - 00:05:50:03And the second part is, I think for a lot of hiring managers
00:05:50:03 - 00:05:54:01and supervisors, especially those that have been at it for a long time,
00:05:54:01 - 00:05:56:16their job has changed dramatically.
00:05:57:01 - 00:05:59:17It's changed because of the shortage of people we have.
00:05:59:17 - 00:06:01:04So they have to be much more involved
00:06:01:04 - 00:06:04:14now in recruiting and retention and making sure their people
00:06:04:19 - 00:06:07:18feel satisfied in their job and that they want to stick around.
00:06:08:10 - 00:06:13:04And they've also had to take on more of a role in the entire employee.
00:06:13:04 - 00:06:15:04It's not that I'm just going to evaluate
00:06:15:04 - 00:06:19:04you on your ability to get your work done and your innovation at work.
00:06:19:09 - 00:06:21:15Now it's you. What's your mental health?
00:06:22:04 - 00:06:23:11Is there any stress in your life?
00:06:23:11 - 00:06:24:10Is something happening
00:06:24:10 - 00:06:27:23that we need to know about that maybe we can help accommodate it?
00:06:28:06 - 00:06:30:23And so their life has changed quite a bit, too, and trying to help
00:06:30:23 - 00:06:35:06them understand that they need to understand the younger employees.
00:06:35:06 - 00:06:37:14They're not better, they're not worse, they're different.
00:06:37:14 - 00:06:39:23And what they want is very different.
00:06:39:23 - 00:06:43:09And you can complain about it, but you're also the people that are saying,
00:06:43:09 - 00:06:47:03I need more people to come work for me because I'm working too much.
00:06:47:03 - 00:06:47:16All right.
00:06:47:16 - 00:06:49:19But if you want us to help you find new people,
00:06:50:03 - 00:06:53:13then you've got to understand how do talk to those people,
00:06:53:13 - 00:06:55:16communicate with those people and keep those people happy.
00:06:55:16 - 00:06:58:11Because if they leave your back to having too much work again.
00:06:59:02 - 00:07:02:08So all of that falls into that learning and development
00:07:02:16 - 00:07:06:23sort of bucket that says, what do people have to deal with now?
00:07:06:23 - 00:07:07:22And how is we as
00:07:07:22 - 00:07:11:03how are we as an employer going to figure out how to train them in that?
00:07:11:13 - 00:07:14:13And can you give some examples of what companies
00:07:14:13 - 00:07:17:08are actually doing with that information?
00:07:17:19 - 00:07:18:07Yeah, you know,
00:07:18:07 - 00:07:22:09I think what they're trying to do is, one, they're trying to identify the skills.
00:07:22:09 - 00:07:28:10We did that in our in our last talent report webinar that it's communications.
00:07:28:10 - 00:07:30:08It's decision making.
00:07:30:08 - 00:07:31:21It's accountability.
00:07:31:21 - 00:07:35:09It's things that, you know, have been there probably for a long time.
00:07:35:09 - 00:07:36:06But they
00:07:37:05 - 00:07:39:00they are much more prevalent right now.
00:07:39:00 - 00:07:42:04And so they've got to figure out how to do some of those things.
00:07:42:04 - 00:07:44:21We are trying to begin to mix people a little bit
00:07:44:21 - 00:07:48:03more by age as well as by a variety of other things.
00:07:49:01 - 00:07:52:12If you and I are in the same meeting and somebody says, here's
00:07:52:12 - 00:07:55:00the direction that we're going in, this is what we're going to do,
00:07:55:07 - 00:07:57:20your take on it's probably going to be very different than mine.
00:07:58:03 - 00:08:03:07And so it's a good thing to have a 25 year old, a 45 year
00:08:03:07 - 00:08:06:12old and a 65 year old in the same meeting, because they're going to see things
00:08:06:12 - 00:08:07:17very differently.
00:08:07:17 - 00:08:11:00So you're starting to see the way people do meetings differently, the way they do.
00:08:11:00 - 00:08:12:15The strategic planning is changing
00:08:12:15 - 00:08:15:23dramatically to have different voices in the room.
00:08:16:12 - 00:08:19:03Mentoring and reverse mentoring.
00:08:19:03 - 00:08:21:21I think there's a couple of things I could probably teach you.
00:08:22:14 - 00:08:27:14I know there are things that you can teach me, so how do we set up those meetings
00:08:27:14 - 00:08:31:19and those relationships in a way that people can take advantage of that?
00:08:32:03 - 00:08:34:05So trying to take that, this is what we need
00:08:34:05 - 00:08:37:11and now how do we work it into the to the daily work?
00:08:37:11 - 00:08:40:13Because if we just say Jim, Sophie, you two should talk to each other
00:08:40:13 - 00:08:43:04once in a while, that might happen and it might not.
00:08:43:11 - 00:08:47:11And so we have to sort of be intentional in how we're doing it.
00:08:47:16 - 00:08:50:12Absolutely. Kind of going along with that.
00:08:50:12 - 00:08:53:21You recently spoke at a generational differences conference
00:08:54:05 - 00:08:55:01where you really talked
00:08:55:01 - 00:08:59:04about emerging leaders and how how they can use their skills
00:08:59:04 - 00:09:02:07and how to develop them, communicate with them and more.
00:09:02:07 - 00:09:06:14So can you kind of highlight some of the key points that you discussed there?
00:09:06:18 - 00:09:08:21Yeah, we actually tag teamed it.
00:09:08:21 - 00:09:12:06So we had a millennial and then a baby boomer,
00:09:12:14 - 00:09:16:03you know, and started it just by, you know, sort of saying, okay,
00:09:16:10 - 00:09:18:18let's just ask you a couple of questions
00:09:19:12 - 00:09:22:03if you needed technical assistance,
00:09:22:07 - 00:09:26:11who would you go to the the 27 year old or the 62 year old?
00:09:26:20 - 00:09:29:23If you wanted help with strategic planning, which one would you go to
00:09:30:02 - 00:09:33:13if you had a financial question, if you needed a project manager,
00:09:33:20 - 00:09:36:04if you wanted to understand what TicTok was
00:09:36:14 - 00:09:40:02and went through a series of questions where some of them are pretty obvious
00:09:40:02 - 00:09:44:03and they're correct and some of them you might, you know, be wrong
00:09:44:03 - 00:09:50:01that you're just assuming that, well, he's never been on TicTok as he's this age,
00:09:50:01 - 00:09:53:07but she's been on Tic TAC as she did Tic TAC.
00:09:53:21 - 00:09:55:17One of the biggest generational differences.
00:09:55:17 - 00:09:59:06It's a Tic TAC to me. Is the TicTok to you?
00:09:59:06 - 00:10:00:14It's a hard to say. It is.
00:10:00:14 - 00:10:04:04And you know, I've been saying tic tac longer than it's saying TicTok. So.
00:10:04:05 - 00:10:05:13All right. Showing my age,
00:10:07:02 - 00:10:07:19you're one of those
00:10:07:19 - 00:10:10:21more likely to have that type of experiences as well.
00:10:10:21 - 00:10:12:20So, yeah, we started with that.
00:10:12:20 - 00:10:14:06Just trying to get people to say,
00:10:14:06 - 00:10:18:07you know, what sort of opinions, what biases do we have already?
00:10:18:07 - 00:10:22:01I just assume a 25 year old can tech can do technology.
00:10:22:01 - 00:10:24:10Yeah, there's probably a 90% chance. You're right.
00:10:24:15 - 00:10:29:00But there's some 25 year olds who never bothered. So
00:10:29:11 - 00:10:34:01and there are 60 year olds who got into it as soon as it came and they love it.
00:10:34:14 - 00:10:38:09So just trying to get people to think just because they look like this age,
00:10:38:16 - 00:10:41:18you know, doesn't necessarily mean that that's that's what's right.
00:10:42:10 - 00:10:44:16And then, you know, we introduced ourselves
00:10:44:16 - 00:10:47:10kind of in a joking way saying, okay, what's
00:10:48:04 - 00:10:50:08what's your impression, you know, of this person?
00:10:50:08 - 00:10:54:01And I can, you know, say, well, they're on Tik tok too much.
00:10:54:01 - 00:10:55:15Okay, that's just my opinion.
00:10:55:15 - 00:10:58:02And then I get to hear the rebuttal on that that says you are
00:10:58:02 - 00:11:02:05you can learn on Tik tok and now you know that that that's legit,
00:11:02:15 - 00:11:04:14you know, and saying, okay, you got to speak up more
00:11:04:14 - 00:11:06:00because you have really good opinions
00:11:06:00 - 00:11:09:07and you know, you're not necessarily sharing them with people.
00:11:09:07 - 00:11:12:16And so some of it is constructive and some of it is, you know,
00:11:12:17 - 00:11:14:11just in good humor.
00:11:14:11 - 00:11:15:10And, you know,
00:11:15:10 - 00:11:18:15the young person can look at me and say, God, your memos are way too long.
00:11:18:23 - 00:11:22:04You have these long paragraphs just like get to the bullet points
00:11:22:04 - 00:11:23:10and let's be done.
00:11:23:10 - 00:11:26:13That or joking when I say, Hey, did you see the commercial
00:11:26:13 - 00:11:27:10or what you look like?
00:11:27:10 - 00:11:29:12Why in the world are you watching commercials?
00:11:29:16 - 00:11:31:06How dumb can you be?
00:11:31:06 - 00:11:33:23So some of those are just sort of like, understand?
00:11:33:23 - 00:11:38:10Yeah, most definitely where they're at, how they consume things, technology,
00:11:38:16 - 00:11:43:07television, radio, music, you know, just very different things.
00:11:43:07 - 00:11:47:03So just, you know, try to open up their minds a little bit to saying, yeah,
00:11:47:03 - 00:11:50:09let's think about some of these things before we just run
00:11:50:09 - 00:11:53:12and make, you know, assumptions of of what's happening.
00:11:53:13 - 00:11:54:13Absolutely.
00:11:54:13 - 00:11:58:21And in terms of communicating with emerging leaders or developing them,
00:11:59:06 - 00:12:02:04what do you really think members ought to be thinking about?
00:12:02:17 - 00:12:06:00I think we've lived in a world for so long that, you know,
00:12:06:00 - 00:12:11:04usually there was a primary form of communication.
00:12:11:13 - 00:12:14:22You know, at one point it might have been actually having
00:12:14:22 - 00:12:19:11to make copies of something and stick it in everybody's actual mailbox.
00:12:19:17 - 00:12:23:03And then we knew all the staff got it, and then we sent out
00:12:23:03 - 00:12:26:07all emails emailed to all staff saying, okay, here it is.
00:12:26:16 - 00:12:32:00We assumed everybody got it, we faxed it to people and we assumed everybody got it.
00:12:32:09 - 00:12:35:11And we're in a world now, especially with these four generations
00:12:35:11 - 00:12:38:17that, you know, if I said to you, what's what's your
00:12:39:10 - 00:12:42:07primary way that you would like me to communicate with you?
00:12:42:07 - 00:12:46:05So if I said, I want to get a hold of you and I want a quick answer,
00:12:46:05 - 00:12:48:00how would you want me to communicate with you?
00:12:48:00 - 00:12:49:19Text. Text to me.
00:12:49:19 - 00:12:52:22And that's that's spot on, you know,
00:12:52:22 - 00:12:56:11and I might say I'm actually I would probably say, text me at this point, too.
00:12:56:19 - 00:12:58:23Mostly, though, because I'm adapting to other people.
00:12:59:05 - 00:13:03:06I would have said normally I was at email me because that would be the fastest way
00:13:03:15 - 00:13:04:21to get a hold of me.
00:13:04:21 - 00:13:08:10But what companies now are having to deal with is if your primary way of
00:13:08:10 - 00:13:14:15communicating is texting and mine, is email in others might be on our system.
00:13:14:15 - 00:13:17:18And so they wanted in chatter and others say, you know,
00:13:17:18 - 00:13:21:07if you could just do a video and I could watch it, that's easier.
00:13:21:10 - 00:13:22:01And quite frankly,
00:13:22:01 - 00:13:25:19if you recorded it, I can listen to it while I'm driving or something like that.
00:13:26:10 - 00:13:28:23So that's five different ways of communicating
00:13:28:23 - 00:13:32:06the same message, trying to make sure that it gets to everybody right.
00:13:32:16 - 00:13:35:17And I think we have to understand that if there's a primary way
00:13:35:17 - 00:13:39:05of communicating with people, that's the way that they're going to consume it.
00:13:39:10 - 00:13:43:23And I can not like it, but I can't be mad either when they say, Well, I don't know.
00:13:43:23 - 00:13:44:21Did you ever text me?
00:13:44:21 - 00:13:46:19What's that? No, I never texted you.
00:13:46:19 - 00:13:47:19Come on.
00:13:48:00 - 00:13:48:12Right.
00:13:48:12 - 00:13:51:01And, you know, you went through our entire leadership program.
00:13:51:01 - 00:13:53:06And that was one of the questions we asked people was,
00:13:53:06 - 00:13:55:23what do you want most when you you know, you start your employment
00:13:56:06 - 00:14:00:20and after the box of swag was I want my supervisor cell phone number.
00:14:00:20 - 00:14:01:04Yeah.
00:14:01:09 - 00:14:04:14And that's a huge you know, you might have a 55 year old
00:14:04:14 - 00:14:07:06like I'm not giving my cell phone number to a 25 year old there.
00:14:07:10 - 00:14:09:21Call me from the bar on Saturday night.
00:14:09:21 - 00:14:11:16You know, that's not the point of it.
00:14:11:16 - 00:14:14:08You know what the probably you're looking for is
00:14:14:12 - 00:14:17:01And in answer to a question and I want it quick.
00:14:17:03 - 00:14:17:19Absolutely.
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:20:00And if I text you, I better get a response from.
00:14:20:13 - 00:14:21:20I can attest to that.
00:14:21:20 - 00:14:23:04So, you know, there you have it.
00:14:23:04 - 00:14:26:03So I think you are having to try to begin to figure out
00:14:27:00 - 00:14:31:09how do we communicate with everybody in a way that they will actually consume
00:14:31:09 - 00:14:34:11what it is that that we want them to consume For sure.
00:14:34:11 - 00:14:36:15Because like I said, I can throw out a thousand messages,
00:14:36:15 - 00:14:40:04but if I'm putting my messages on commercial TV,
00:14:40:17 - 00:14:42:16you're not ever going to see it right?
00:14:42:16 - 00:14:46:17And if you're putting everything on Spotify, I might never hear it.
00:14:47:03 - 00:14:50:13And so where do we go and how do we communicate?
00:14:51:15 - 00:14:54:14So kind of moving in a new direction here.
00:14:54:20 - 00:14:56:12There were two recent surveys
00:14:56:12 - 00:15:00:07that MRA just published in there and this month's talent report,
00:15:00:07 - 00:15:05:00but it's the Business and Economic Outlook for 2023 in the Turnover survey.
00:15:05:08 - 00:15:07:12So what was found in these surveys?
00:15:09:10 - 00:15:12:01I'll go with the second one first because it's easier.
00:15:12:13 - 00:15:14:13Turnover was up
00:15:14:13 - 00:15:16:19and it was up in almost every type of job.
00:15:16:19 - 00:15:22:06It was about 25% this past year, which is what it was last year,
00:15:22:13 - 00:15:26:09but historically had been more in that 15, 16, 17% range.
00:15:26:09 - 00:15:29:14So it's still there and it's still going on.
00:15:29:18 - 00:15:35:18It's much higher at the lower level jobs than it is at the executive jobs.
00:15:36:01 - 00:15:38:16Executives as low as eight or 9%.
00:15:39:10 - 00:15:42:23But the people that maybe are in a manufacturing job
00:15:42:23 - 00:15:46:02that are just starting, it might be as high as 35%.
00:15:46:16 - 00:15:50:18So the turnover is still there and companies are really trying
00:15:50:18 - 00:15:55:01to focus on keeping them for that first week and month.
00:15:55:06 - 00:15:57:00And if they can keep them for that
00:15:57:00 - 00:15:59:00first week in month, they've got a much better chance.
00:15:59:00 - 00:16:00:15And so you're seeing a lot of
00:16:00:15 - 00:16:04:12how do we surround this person with buddies or friends or mentors?
00:16:04:17 - 00:16:06:02How do we keep in touch with them?
00:16:06:02 - 00:16:07:14How do we contact them?
00:16:07:14 - 00:16:09:00And spending a lot of time on that.
00:16:09:00 - 00:16:12:06But the the turnover is up, I think right now
00:16:12:17 - 00:16:15:17the employers are a little bit more optimistic that maybe we're going to
00:16:15:17 - 00:16:19:11stabilize here, that those who are jumping just for money
00:16:19:17 - 00:16:21:06have perhaps jumped
00:16:21:06 - 00:16:22:06and others are starting
00:16:22:06 - 00:16:25:14to look around and say, okay, I've got the wage that I'm looking for.
00:16:25:14 - 00:16:27:18We always want more, but I'm pretty comfortable.
00:16:28:06 - 00:16:31:22Now. What I'm looking for is maybe a little more longevity,
00:16:31:22 - 00:16:33:00a little bit more about
00:16:33:00 - 00:16:36:03what do you have to offer, a little bit more about my work life balance.
00:16:36:03 - 00:16:38:21So maybe it's going to start the evening out.
00:16:38:21 - 00:16:39:23We'll see.
00:16:39:23 - 00:16:43:09We're still at 2% unemployed moment here in Wisconsin.
00:16:44:01 - 00:16:46:01We're around under three.
00:16:46:01 - 00:16:50:01In Minnesota, we're around three in Iowa, a little bit higher in Illinois.
00:16:50:09 - 00:16:52:06So there's still going to be opportunities for people.
00:16:52:06 - 00:16:55:03If there's opportunities for people, they're a little bit more likely to move
00:16:55:04 - 00:16:55:18right in.
00:16:55:18 - 00:16:58:06How about the business and economic?
00:16:58:12 - 00:17:01:02The business, an economic one is really fascinating
00:17:01:02 - 00:17:04:01because I think individually it was in people's companies.
00:17:04:08 - 00:17:07:13They remained pretty optimistic that if I'm a manager,
00:17:07:13 - 00:17:11:07I'm a manufacturer, I might have six months backlog.
00:17:11:07 - 00:17:14:21So I know I've got work that's coming in and people can see that
00:17:15:10 - 00:17:18:13most of their customers and clients are still doing well.
00:17:18:13 - 00:17:21:19So they're feeling pretty good about that.
00:17:21:19 - 00:17:24:11But then you ask them about, well, do you see a recession coming?
00:17:24:12 - 00:17:25:20You think that's going to happen?
00:17:25:20 - 00:17:30:23And, you know, over two thirds are saying, yeah, I think we're going to see that.
00:17:30:23 - 00:17:34:09And then you ask another question, it says, well, then how optimistic are you?
00:17:34:14 - 00:17:39:16And almost 90% are either very or somewhat optimistic
00:17:39:16 - 00:17:42:15that their company is going to remain profitable and do all right.
00:17:42:23 - 00:17:46:15So it's almost like my company's okay, but the rest of the world
00:17:46:15 - 00:17:48:01is in a lot of trouble.
00:17:48:01 - 00:17:50:12But there's a lot of people saying, my company is okay.
00:17:50:12 - 00:17:53:14So if there's enough companies that are saying, I think mine's all right,
00:17:54:01 - 00:17:56:14maybe we're in better shape than we think.
00:17:57:02 - 00:18:00:17Now, the Midwest, I think, is very unique because as we've talked
00:18:00:17 - 00:18:04:12demographics in the past, we were going to have a labor shortage
00:18:04:19 - 00:18:08:18and we could have some people doing layoffs and still have other companies
00:18:09:03 - 00:18:10:03who can pick them up.
00:18:10:03 - 00:18:13:19So to the extent that we're going to keep people employed
00:18:14:05 - 00:18:18:00in northern Illinois and Iowa and Minnesota and Wisconsin,
00:18:18:08 - 00:18:20:05that's going to make a difference for us, I think.
00:18:20:05 - 00:18:23:09And I think it'll make us a little bit more resilient
00:18:23:09 - 00:18:27:23because those companies optimism means, okay, they're going to be hiring people.
00:18:28:04 - 00:18:30:12And most are still saying they are looking.
00:18:30:21 - 00:18:35:13So that that gives us kind of a leg up on maybe we're going to be okay here.
00:18:35:15 - 00:18:36:08Yeah.
00:18:36:14 - 00:18:41:06And in terms of C-suite level, what are the leaders really doing now?
00:18:42:07 - 00:18:42:21They are
00:18:42:21 - 00:18:47:03you know, they continue to be concerned a little bit about the uncertainty.
00:18:47:03 - 00:18:50:21And that is one of the things that, you know, if you're a CEO
00:18:50:21 - 00:18:53:02and you're looking at things, the one thing you want to do
00:18:53:02 - 00:18:55:22is really be able to control the narrative.
00:18:55:22 - 00:19:00:02You want to be able to say, look, I, I can control these types of things,
00:19:00:02 - 00:19:03:15but if you're going to have price increases every two weeks,
00:19:03:23 - 00:19:07:23yes, the government is going to pass some new compliance law
00:19:07:23 - 00:19:12:21or they're going to change the way in which they might say we can
00:19:12:22 - 00:19:16:18We can't have non-compete that changes the way we do things.
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:20:22There is all kinds of political activity out there.
00:19:20:22 - 00:19:23:13There is world affairs going on.
00:19:23:19 - 00:19:27:00So all of those things combined, you start adding five
00:19:27:00 - 00:19:29:11or six or seven or eight of these together and it's kind of like,
00:19:30:04 - 00:19:32:04you know, let me control what I can control.
00:19:32:04 - 00:19:34:22I can hire people, I can improve my processes.
00:19:35:03 - 00:19:38:09But you're throwing all these other things at me and that's caused me
00:19:38:17 - 00:19:39:18quite a bit of strife.
00:19:39:18 - 00:19:43:01So I think that that's that's an issue for them.
00:19:43:12 - 00:19:47:05They understand the talent issue for sure, and they continue to be concerned
00:19:47:05 - 00:19:47:17about that.
00:19:47:17 - 00:19:50:15And I think they're spending a little bit more time with their HR.
00:19:50:15 - 00:19:53:01Department saying, you know, what do we do about this?
00:19:54:00 - 00:19:57:01And in my presentations, i often say, well,
00:19:57:01 - 00:20:00:03you know, the problem looks an awful lot like me, that there's a lot of people
00:20:00:03 - 00:20:04:01that are, you know, 60 some years old, have been doing this for a long time.
00:20:04:01 - 00:20:07:17And they're saying all these young people, you know what's coming in here,
00:20:07:22 - 00:20:09:18How do we get them to be more motivated?
00:20:09:18 - 00:20:13:14And I would argue that I think they're motivated as I've ever been.
00:20:13:14 - 00:20:17:08It's just we're looking at digging into the the 2%,
00:20:17:08 - 00:20:21:05which I think unemployment was 7% when I was looking for my first job.
00:20:21:12 - 00:20:23:15So there's 200 people applying for every job.
00:20:23:15 - 00:20:24:23I pick the best one.
00:20:24:23 - 00:20:28:07You're walking around saying, I got five people who want me to come work for them.
00:20:28:15 - 00:20:30:03I can pick whichever one I want.
00:20:30:03 - 00:20:33:19So that's a that's just a very different world.
00:20:33:23 - 00:20:34:15Absolutely.
00:20:34:15 - 00:20:37:19And I think they're pushing their HR.
00:20:37:19 - 00:20:42:13Departments very hard on especially going back to this emerging leader thing.
00:20:42:20 - 00:20:44:01What should we be doing?
00:20:44:01 - 00:20:48:10The mentoring, the reverse mentoring, the helping them with assessments
00:20:48:10 - 00:20:52:06of personalities and assessments of communication styles,
00:20:52:18 - 00:20:56:00getting them into team building and cross-functional teams,
00:20:56:00 - 00:21:02:01putting the high potentials on our Strat planning group, giving them opportunities
00:21:02:01 - 00:21:06:02to see this is where I can be a bigger part of this organization.
00:21:06:02 - 00:21:08:17If I know I'm a part of it, I'm going to stay in.
00:21:08:17 - 00:21:11:18If I see opportunities, then we'll be much better off.
00:21:12:07 - 00:21:14:13So I think at this point everybody's figured out who we can hang on to,
00:21:14:14 - 00:21:16:19people we don't have to be looking for as many people.
00:21:16:19 - 00:21:18:07So that's
00:21:19:06 - 00:21:21:10that's sort of where folks are at and saying, yeah,
00:21:21:15 - 00:21:25:01let's let's keep the ones we get because we spent a lot of money time
00:21:25:01 - 00:21:26:09trying to get them. Yeah.
00:21:26:09 - 00:21:29:00And how about for HR. Strategies?
00:21:29:00 - 00:21:32:15What are you seeing for creative strategies wise?
00:21:32:20 - 00:21:35:10You know, i think the most creative one that I got
00:21:36:03 - 00:21:38:15this time around from one of my roundtables.
00:21:38:15 - 00:21:42:13It was a smaller rural town, but it was a company that had changed
00:21:42:13 - 00:21:45:18their name, wasn't necessarily
00:21:45:18 - 00:21:49:16delivering a product direct to consumer where you'd say,
00:21:49:16 - 00:21:52:08Oh, I recognize that it's Coca-Cola, you know, I get it.
00:21:52:23 - 00:21:55:17And they were they've been recruiting and are trying to find people
00:21:55:17 - 00:21:57:00and there's just not that many people.
00:21:57:00 - 00:21:59:07And a lot of folks are, you know, stealing from each other.
00:22:00:01 - 00:22:02:03And they decided it
00:22:02:16 - 00:22:05:06really as an effort to try to get their name back out there
00:22:05:06 - 00:22:09:00and remind people that they were in town, basically held a community event.
00:22:09:10 - 00:22:11:23And it was just sort of like a community fair.
00:22:12:05 - 00:22:14:18They had games for the kids.
00:22:14:18 - 00:22:18:12They had, you know, drink tickets, they had a tent.
00:22:18:20 - 00:22:22:17They had all kinds of fun activities for people to do and just said, come on in.
00:22:22:17 - 00:22:26:03We want to celebrate the community and we'll see what happens now.
00:22:27:00 - 00:22:29:10And then near the where the drink tickets were,
00:22:29:11 - 00:22:30:14they had set up a booth
00:22:30:14 - 00:22:33:02that just explained who their company was and what they did.
00:22:33:02 - 00:22:35:19And you know, they had job applications there as well.
00:22:36:11 - 00:22:40:12And what they found was, one, people didn't know they were there and they were
00:22:40:12 - 00:22:43:11picking up brochures and saying, Wow, this is really interesting.
00:22:43:11 - 00:22:48:02But they also got 25 employees out of the deal from the applications
00:22:48:02 - 00:22:49:09that were picked up here.
00:22:49:09 - 00:22:52:23And these weren't even necessarily people that were looking, but they saw it.
00:22:52:23 - 00:22:55:01They came to a place that was fun.
00:22:55:01 - 00:22:58:17They saw the employees that were there and they were having fun and looked like
00:22:58:17 - 00:23:00:07they were committed to the company.
00:23:00:07 - 00:23:03:11And if you ask them about it, I would say you know, good thing.
00:23:03:11 - 00:23:04:00Yeah.
00:23:04:01 - 00:23:06:22And this is a company that puts out activities like this.
00:23:06:22 - 00:23:08:18This all sounds pretty good to me.
00:23:08:18 - 00:23:13:18And just based on their experience there that day and talking to their employees,
00:23:14:06 - 00:23:17:03they got 25 new employees out of it
00:23:17:11 - 00:23:20:17at a time when they'd been spending thousands on advertising
00:23:20:17 - 00:23:23:23and using recruiters and maybe getting two or three.
00:23:24:15 - 00:23:28:21So almost by accident, but outside the box time.
00:23:29:10 - 00:23:32:06So so I would say that that was probably
00:23:32:06 - 00:23:35:06the most creative one on Newcastle on in the last month.
00:23:35:11 - 00:23:37:17That sounds creative. Ended up
00:23:38:20 - 00:23:39:16well for that one.
00:23:39:16 - 00:23:39:21Yeah.
00:23:39:21 - 00:23:42:12All worked out well and I might have another one.
00:23:43:14 - 00:23:46:16Or as we kind of wrap up here, there's a lot of changes
00:23:46:16 - 00:23:51:02happening in the workforce and a lot of those hard population.
00:23:51:02 - 00:23:55:09So can you talk about the change in population over the last ten years
00:23:55:09 - 00:23:57:16and how that's really affected the workforce?
00:23:57:22 - 00:24:01:01Yeah, you know, if you look around and I've mentioned this
00:24:01:01 - 00:24:04:06before, the the Northeast and the upper Midwest
00:24:04:19 - 00:24:09:04are sort of the places where that is now where people are moving to.
00:24:09:05 - 00:24:13:11And so without that migration that's been that's a problem.
00:24:13:11 - 00:24:16:09And so good news over the last ten years.
00:24:16:18 - 00:24:21:13We saw growth in Wisconsin and Minnesota and Illinois
00:24:21:20 - 00:24:27:09between three and 5%, which isn't great, but at least it's growth.
00:24:28:05 - 00:24:30:07Illinois is is struggling.
00:24:30:07 - 00:24:32:19It's one of the biggest migration out states.
00:24:32:19 - 00:24:35:13So they they have their own set of issues.
00:24:36:00 - 00:24:38:15But before everybody gets too excited about plus three or four
00:24:38:15 - 00:24:42:23or 5%, the digging into the numbers is really the key.
00:24:42:23 - 00:24:47:23And that grows in three, four, 5% are all working age people.
00:24:47:23 - 00:24:51:19In fact, very few of them are in the working age population.
00:24:52:12 - 00:24:56:13More of them are going to be near the retirement age side of things.
00:24:56:13 - 00:24:57:02And so
00:24:59:05 - 00:25:01:03it could be worse.
00:25:01:08 - 00:25:03:18But most of the states, especially when you go south
00:25:03:18 - 00:25:06:03and when you go west, are having more growth.
00:25:06:03 - 00:25:08:23And that most of it is around hotspots.
00:25:08:23 - 00:25:12:05So when you see the Portland's in the Denver's in the Carolinas
00:25:12:05 - 00:25:15:18and Austin, Texas, that's where people are going
00:25:16:12 - 00:25:20:06and we don't necessarily have one of those in several states.
00:25:20:14 - 00:25:21:13Minneapolis St.
00:25:21:13 - 00:25:23:16Paul is a draw, it's a hub,
00:25:25:06 - 00:25:27:17but that's really about the only one for Minnesota.
00:25:27:22 - 00:25:29:05Milwaukee's trying hard.
00:25:29:05 - 00:25:31:02Madison's doing a good job,
00:25:31:02 - 00:25:34:21but they still don't compete with that sort of national buzz
00:25:35:04 - 00:25:38:21about some of those other places where you might just say,
00:25:38:21 - 00:25:41:05That looks like a cool place and that's where I'm going.
00:25:41:05 - 00:25:43:07I'll find a job, I'll figure it out when I get there,
00:25:43:18 - 00:25:46:23because you can do that because you know that there will be a job there right now.
00:25:47:10 - 00:25:49:18Well, looking to the future a little bit,
00:25:49:18 - 00:25:53:07can you give us a sneak peek on April's talent report?
00:25:53:13 - 00:25:55:23Yeah, we're going to be looking at employee engagement,
00:25:56:09 - 00:25:58:19and that's I know others have talked about here.
00:25:58:19 - 00:26:02:20Last year was a really big let's go recruit, recruit recruiting fruit.
00:26:03:05 - 00:26:05:03And I think people are going to keep doing that.
00:26:05:03 - 00:26:08:08But in the process of doing that, you started realizing, well,
00:26:08:08 - 00:26:13:03if I've got to recruit 20 and ten others leave, I'm only up ten.
00:26:13:03 - 00:26:14:21And so I got to keep recruiting, recruiting.
00:26:14:21 - 00:26:19:01So I think people are looking more at retention and we'll have Lisa Poulin,
00:26:19:09 - 00:26:20:09who does a lot
00:26:20:09 - 00:26:24:18of our organizational development work, talking about some of the assessments
00:26:24:18 - 00:26:27:09you can use and trying to make sure that people are happy.
00:26:27:09 - 00:26:28:10Employee engagement
00:26:28:10 - 00:26:32:20surveys, finding out what's on their mind, and then trying to figure out, you know,
00:26:32:20 - 00:26:34:10what are the benefits and what's the culture
00:26:34:10 - 00:26:36:16and what's the structure we've got of the organization
00:26:37:01 - 00:26:39:11that's going to have those people stay with us for the long term?
00:26:39:11 - 00:26:43:08Because the longer that they're, the more they know and the more we need a great.
00:26:43:08 - 00:26:45:15While looking forward to it. Yeah, I do.
00:26:45:15 - 00:26:50:05Any other last pieces of advice or lasting comments on.
00:26:50:05 - 00:26:50:22Sure.
00:26:51:00 - 00:26:54:08I think people do that and just, you know, dig in and keep fighting.
00:26:55:06 - 00:26:57:05I think the creativity is going to be key.
00:26:57:05 - 00:26:59:11It's just, you know, it's the party.
00:26:59:11 - 00:27:03:07It's figuring out what's the niche group that we want to go after.
00:27:03:07 - 00:27:05:23It's finding a new place to go look for people.
00:27:06:20 - 00:27:07:22It's not going to end.
00:27:07:22 - 00:27:10:01And so people are going to have to just keep working at it.
00:27:10:01 - 00:27:11:11And that's exhausting.
00:27:11:11 - 00:27:12:18I'm sorry about that.
00:27:12:18 - 00:27:16:10But the creative ones are winning and they're successful.
00:27:16:10 - 00:27:19:23Yeah, well, I want to thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today
00:27:19:23 - 00:27:22:22and really sharing this month's talent report with us.
00:27:23:06 - 00:27:27:09So if you liked our chat and topic today, make sure you share it with episode.
00:27:27:09 - 00:27:28:06Leave a comment,
00:27:28:06 - 00:27:32:07leave a review, Consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:27:32:12 - 00:27:35:04We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below,
00:27:35:13 - 00:27:38:18including Jim's bio, his LinkedIn profile.
00:27:38:18 - 00:27:43:03So if you want to get in touch with him, I'm sure he'll be happy to chat with you.
00:27:43:15 - 00:27:44:06Otherwise.
00:27:44:06 - 00:27:47:18Thank you for tuning in today and we will see you next week.
00:27:47:18 - 00:27:50:13And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:27:50:14 - 00:27:53:18Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect.
00:27:53:18 - 00:27:55:09For more podcast updates,
00:27:55:09 - 00:27:59:05check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:27:59:05 - 00:28:04:04And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:28:04:04 - 00:28:05:06Thanks for tuning in
00:28:05:06 - 00:28:08:18and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 
 

Hot on the Hotline: Leaves of Absence

Description: In today's episode, we're tackling the intricate field of leaves of absence. We'll dive into the different types of leaves, common misconceptions, frequently asked questions, and helpful resources you can use to stay on top of best practices, rules and regulations regarding leaves of absence. 
Key Takeaways:
When it comes to leaves of absence, work with empathy, communicate well, have expectations laid out, have an agreement, and understand return dates. 
There's a misconception that you can't fire, terminate, discipline, or manage people's expectations when they're on leave. That is simply untrue. Those things can all be done if they're done fairly and objectively.
MRA has many leaves of absence resources, including the hotline, toolkits, guides, trainings, and more! 
Resources:
24/7 HR Hotline 
Leave of Absence Request Form 
JAN - Job Accommodation Network  
ADA Toolkit  
Supervisor and the Law Training 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Amy Whittenberger 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amy Whittenberger 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR?
00:00:12:23 - 00:00:14:18MRA has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:15We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:22:22Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:22:22 - 00:00:26:22Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:27:05 - 00:00:30:18We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to talk about what's hot on the hotline
00:00:30:22 - 00:00:32:13with Amy Whittenberger.
00:00:32:13 - 00:00:35:06She's our HR Business Advisor here at MRA.
00:00:35:07 - 00:00:38:17So she's the one to answer all of your HR Questions,
00:00:38:17 - 00:00:42:04and provide some good advice when you call on our HR hotline.
00:00:42:05 - 00:00:46:14Prior to joining MRA, Amy held multiple positions in HR
00:00:46:14 - 00:00:50:01and operations roles, and worked in the manufacturing
00:00:50:01 - 00:00:53:07and service industries, all small and large companies,
00:00:53:16 - 00:00:57:05as well as for-profit and not-for-profit companies.
00:00:57:17 - 00:01:01:19She's actually owned her own HR consulting business and taught
00:01:01:19 - 00:01:05:05HR courses at Cardinal Stritch University as well.
00:01:05:16 - 00:01:08:18So, I know you come with a lot of experience and knowledge
00:01:08:18 - 00:01:12:08today, so I'm excited that you're sharing it with us on the podcast today.
00:01:13:14 - 00:01:14:15I'm glad to be here.
00:01:14:15 - 00:01:15:05This is fun.
00:01:15:05 - 00:01:16:15Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:16:15 - 00:01:20:04Well, a recent episode was dedicated to MRA's most
00:01:20:04 - 00:01:24:01called upon topic on the hotline, which was FMLA.
00:01:24:10 - 00:01:28:21So let's kind of talk about the other side to that, and that's leaves of absence.
00:01:28:21 - 00:01:31:14So what other forms of leaves are there?
00:01:32:03 - 00:01:35:16So there are a couple more that we do need to talk about with our members
00:01:35:16 - 00:01:36:19when they do call in.
00:01:36:19 - 00:01:39:21You know, we have over 4000 members, a million employees,
00:01:39:21 - 00:01:42:19so we're bound to get calls regarding leaves that are needed.
00:01:43:15 - 00:01:47:20Some of those leaves look like our medical and personal leaves are policies
00:01:47:20 - 00:01:51:18a company might have in place of not having FMLA available.
00:01:52:03 - 00:01:56:08And there's the big one, which is ADA, where there is an accommodation
00:01:56:08 - 00:01:57:15in the form of leave.
00:01:57:15 - 00:02:01:12There are military leaves and leaves due to worker's compensation.
00:02:01:12 - 00:02:05:15And we also need to talk about any state-mandated paid leaves
00:02:05:15 - 00:02:06:13that are out there as well.
00:02:06:13 - 00:02:08:13And there are 11 states that have that right now.
00:02:08:18 - 00:02:10:19So a lot of different types going on.
00:02:10:19 - 00:02:12:09So, if a member were to call
00:02:12:09 - 00:02:15:03and say that they have an employee that needs to be out
00:02:15:10 - 00:02:21:12but they are not eligible for for FMLA; what really are their options?
00:02:21:12 - 00:02:23:02like where do they start?
00:02:23:02 - 00:02:25:02I think the first question I would ask them is,
00:02:25:03 - 00:02:29:00is if they do have a medical or personal leave policy on hand,
00:02:29:00 - 00:02:31:20if they do, obviously that's a great foundation to work with.
00:02:32:06 - 00:02:35:09You know, if I look at the policies, they tend to mirror FMLA.
00:02:35:09 - 00:02:39:19So the conversation can be almost the same as an FMLA, in terms of, you know,
00:02:39:19 - 00:02:42:19the eligibility requirements they might have for employees' forms
00:02:42:19 - 00:02:47:12to use, medical certifications to get, as well as, how do you handle
00:02:47:12 - 00:02:50:18benefits, pay in paying for benefits of all that employees out
00:02:51:15 - 00:02:53:11and then documenting everything.
00:02:53:11 - 00:02:57:23If they don't have a leave policy then we suggest that they use our sample.
00:02:57:23 - 00:03:01:00We have a great sample to use, and then to work from.
00:03:01:23 - 00:03:04:13And then, if they don't have that policy in place,
00:03:04:13 - 00:03:06:07really is talking about, you know,
00:03:06:07 - 00:03:08:03if this is the first time they might be doing it,
00:03:08:03 - 00:03:12:02what precedent might they be setting with this employee, for future decisions,
00:03:12:10 - 00:03:15:19or certainly look back, if they can, in different files
00:03:16:06 - 00:03:19:12where they might have had past practices so that they can be consistent
00:03:19:12 - 00:03:20:03in the future.
00:03:20:03 - 00:03:24:05So what else do companies really need to consider on this?
00:03:25:04 - 00:03:28:07And particularly to their policies in terms of leave?
00:03:28:08 - 00:03:31:11You know, I certainly bring into the conversation regarding PTO,
00:03:32:18 - 00:03:34:23you know, how is their PTO administered?
00:03:34:23 - 00:03:39:09How does it apply to leaves, required or not, in terms of taking time off,
00:03:40:01 - 00:03:43:01and then again looking at paid leave in terms of states?
00:03:43:14 - 00:03:46:10So the good news is that if you have a policy,
00:03:47:08 - 00:03:50:16where you provide equal amounts of leave in more than the state
00:03:50:16 - 00:03:54:13requires you to have to provide additional leave on top of that.
00:03:54:19 - 00:03:56:03So that you'd just be good to go.
00:03:56:03 - 00:03:58:01So at least get that out of the way.
00:03:58:01 - 00:03:59:15Okay. That makes sense.
00:03:59:15 - 00:04:04:04So you mentioned earlier that ADA was one of the big ones.
00:04:04:09 - 00:04:07:01So can we talk about that a little bit? Yes.
00:04:07:07 - 00:04:10:21So on that same call with any member that's calling in, we certainly would
00:04:10:21 - 00:04:14:16move them into accommodation in terms of a disability.
00:04:14:16 - 00:04:19:00ADA is required of any companies of more than 15 employees,
00:04:19:20 - 00:04:23:00and we would first suggest that they look in their toolkit,
00:04:23:00 - 00:04:26:20so we have a disability toolkit, that's exclusive to our members,
00:04:26:20 - 00:04:30:17very comprehensive in terms of information, state laws, DOL
00:04:30:17 - 00:04:34:11information, forms, letters to use,
00:04:34:18 - 00:04:37:13and an introduction to Jan, so everyone should know Jan.
00:04:38:00 - 00:04:40:11Jan is a resource through the DOL.
00:04:40:11 - 00:04:45:05stands for Job Accommodation Network and so it's a great use resource as well.
00:04:45:05 - 00:04:48:20Working through a leave when it comes to accommodation is similar
00:04:48:20 - 00:04:51:07to accommodations for any other disabilities.
00:04:52:01 - 00:04:54:21It's just having those questions regarding the leave,
00:04:54:21 - 00:04:57:13and the amount of leave that would be necessary.
00:04:58:09 - 00:05:01:00So diving a little bit deeper into ADA,
00:05:01:09 - 00:05:03:18what does a leave really look like under this?
00:05:03:19 - 00:05:06:04Yeah, so it could be a lot of different things,
00:05:06:04 - 00:05:09:11that the can really vary, you know so a couple of samples could be, you know,
00:05:09:11 - 00:05:13:04employee calls in on a Monday and said, hey, I broke my leg over the weekend,
00:05:13:12 - 00:05:15:19playing soccer, I don't have worker's comp.
00:05:15:19 - 00:05:17:07It's not a FMLA.
00:05:17:07 - 00:05:19:17I know I can't come to work because I'm in a cast,
00:05:20:06 - 00:05:22:17I won’t have my cast off for two weeks.
00:05:23:03 - 00:05:24:19What does that look like for them?
00:05:24:19 - 00:05:28:09It could be other issues such as, you know, a mental health issue.
00:05:28:09 - 00:05:30:15We know mental health issues are on the rise.
00:05:31:15 - 00:05:32:17So it could be that they need
00:05:32:17 - 00:05:35:21a modified schedule in order to attend therapy appointments.
00:05:36:17 - 00:05:39:04On that same vein, it could be people that have like
00:05:39:04 - 00:05:41:21a chronic diabetes situation and need treatments,
00:05:42:10 - 00:05:44:13or unfortunately people are dealing with cancer.
00:05:44:13 - 00:05:46:23They have chemotherapy that they have to attend.
00:05:48:04 - 00:05:50:15It could also be people that have a drug addiction,
00:05:50:15 - 00:05:54:21and they want to check themselves into like a 30 day stay treatment center.
00:05:55:11 - 00:06:00:05And could be of a newer disability, are going to be working with the service dog.
00:06:00:05 - 00:06:01:04So I need to go
00:06:01:04 - 00:06:04:19look at training with my dog to learn how to work through those issues.
00:06:04:19 - 00:06:08:03I didn’t know that was a part of it, it is, yes.
00:06:09:05 - 00:06:11:08And it can be things like you know
00:06:11:21 - 00:06:15:10I had a FMLA available to me for migraines.
00:06:15:10 - 00:06:19:01Migraines tend not to go away, so I'm still dealing with migraines,
00:06:19:09 - 00:06:21:05you know, how can we work through leave for that?
00:06:22:07 - 00:06:24:10And then, even, you know, a fairly common
00:06:24:10 - 00:06:28:01one is someone who's pregnant and not eligible for FMLA.
00:06:28:09 - 00:06:29:20And working through those issues, like,
00:06:29:20 - 00:06:33:06they might need time off for morning sickness, or things like that.
00:06:33:18 - 00:06:34:06Mm hmm.
00:06:34:06 - 00:06:37:10So a very big array. Yes.
00:06:37:17 - 00:06:38:12It is.
00:06:38:12 - 00:06:42:11ADA is far reaching and very complex.
00:06:42:11 - 00:06:46:15So, do employers have to accommodate employees
00:06:46:15 - 00:06:49:12for every single one of those situations, per se.
00:06:50:00 - 00:06:51:18So, no, each case is different.
00:06:51:18 - 00:06:55:16So essentially what a company does need to do, is
00:06:56:01 - 00:06:59:02they are required to engage in what's called an interactive process.
00:06:59:13 - 00:07:03:13That process is how and the employer and the employee works
00:07:03:13 - 00:07:07:09together to find out, you know, what is a reasonable accommodation.
00:07:07:21 - 00:07:11:08So this should be a conversation, it should not be a confrontation.
00:07:11:18 - 00:07:16:00You know, it really is about the employer and the employee come together
00:07:16:00 - 00:07:19:23with ideas, bring them to the table, come into agreement about what might work.
00:07:20:00 - 00:07:23:15You know, there could be situations where through those conversations, the employer
00:07:23:15 - 00:07:27:20finds out or determines that they can't accommodate with the employee is asking.
00:07:28:06 - 00:07:31:12And that's what we call an undue hardship.
00:07:31:12 - 00:07:35:07And there's very, you know, pretty specific reasons why you would choose.
00:07:35:07 - 00:07:35:16That,
00:07:36:16 - 00:07:38:06is a lengthy conversation.
00:07:38:06 - 00:07:40:15It shouldn't be made lightly.
00:07:40:15 - 00:07:43:08And if you're coming to that conclusion, certainly, you know,
00:07:43:08 - 00:07:47:06we suggest that you have a complete set of documentation
00:07:47:13 - 00:07:49:06regarding those conversations and why you made that decision.
00:07:49:06 - 00:07:52:22Kind of going off of that, and you just spoke a little bit about it.
00:07:53:07 - 00:07:56:14But what really are the factors used to determine
00:07:56:14 - 00:07:58:17whether an undue hardship exists?
00:07:59:08 - 00:08:00:00Mm hmm.
00:08:00:00 - 00:08:01:09So when it comes to leaves,
00:08:01:09 - 00:08:04:17it really is about what the employees are requesting in terms of, you know,
00:08:04:17 - 00:08:07:19how long they might need off, the frequency,
00:08:07:19 - 00:08:11:13they might need off, the length of time that they're requesting.
00:08:11:13 - 00:08:13:03A big piece of that is
00:08:13:03 - 00:08:16:12if the time they're requesting, is predictable or unpredictable.
00:08:16:22 - 00:08:19:19You know, we know in the workplace, that when people are calling sick,
00:08:20:01 - 00:08:23:08those unplanned times, get really hard to manage sometimes
00:08:23:08 - 00:08:27:05before the other staff to pick up the pieces and then cover that.
00:08:27:18 - 00:08:31:17So that really plays into making that decision in terms of undue hardship.
00:08:32:03 - 00:08:32:08Okay.
00:08:32:19 - 00:08:35:11So how does this really align with employers
00:08:36:01 - 00:08:39:00who ask for doctors notes when an employee's out
00:08:39:00 - 00:08:42:15for several days or calls than when they're injured outside of work?
00:08:42:15 - 00:08:43:03Yeah.
00:08:43:03 - 00:08:48:20So a lot of attendance policies out there will have a requirement
00:08:48:20 - 00:08:52:14for employers, when the employee is out for let's say three or more days,
00:08:53:00 - 00:08:57:02that they do bring back a doctor's note, clearing them to come back to work.
00:08:58:04 - 00:08:59:00The cautionary
00:08:59:00 - 00:09:02:06point here is that employers have to make sure
00:09:02:06 - 00:09:05:21that they're not requiring that the employees are 100% healed,
00:09:06:23 - 00:09:12:07because that is in direct conflict with ADA, asking us to make accommodations
00:09:12:07 - 00:09:15:08for people that need to meet the essential functions of the job.
00:09:16:09 - 00:09:19:06So in the beginning, we talked a little bit
00:09:19:06 - 00:09:23:22about the different types of leaves, So we should go back to that.
00:09:23:22 - 00:09:26:12And can you talk a little bit more about those other types
00:09:26:12 - 00:09:29:02that you kind of listed out in the first question.
00:09:29:05 - 00:09:29:16Yeah.
00:09:29:16 - 00:09:34:06So besides ADA, another common one I did mention is pregnancy leave.
00:09:34:19 - 00:09:40:09And so people that have a pregnancy but are qualified under a FMLA,
00:09:40:14 - 00:09:43:22they certainly have protections under Title seven and EEOC,
00:09:44:07 - 00:09:46:08and with the Pregnancy Discrimination Act,
00:09:47:15 - 00:09:50:23that prevents people from being discriminated against
00:09:50:23 - 00:09:52:23because of pregnancy issues.
00:09:52:23 - 00:09:56:21But then the ADA does come back into play, and that there is accommodations
00:09:56:21 - 00:09:59:08that should be made for people that are pregnant.
00:09:59:08 - 00:10:03:03Those things can be like additional breaks, longer breaks,
00:10:03:03 - 00:10:07:07maybe a change in schedule, or a change in shift, to deal with,
00:10:07:07 - 00:10:10:19you know, anything you know, including things like morning sickness.
00:10:11:07 - 00:10:12:23We've listed so many already,
00:10:12:23 - 00:10:16:06but are there any other ones that you want to cover too?
00:10:16:21 - 00:10:20:06Yeah, there's definitely one more part and one and I think we saved the best
00:10:20:06 - 00:10:22:10for last. I think that's military leaves.
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:26:11And so there is an act called the USERRA Act, which is the Uniformed
00:10:26:11 - 00:10:29:16Services, Employment and Reemployment Rights Act.
00:10:30:05 - 00:10:33:06And this ACT employee covers all employers.
00:10:33:06 - 00:10:36:07So it's available to anyone that's in a military situation.
00:10:37:04 - 00:10:41:13It's semi similar to a family in that it is providing
00:10:42:00 - 00:10:45:02leave away from the job with protection to come back
00:10:45:02 - 00:10:47:16and get your job, an equal job for equal pay
00:10:48:05 - 00:10:51:19and the military act is different though, in that you you're returning
00:10:51:19 - 00:10:55:05someone who is back to a positions called an escalated position.
00:10:55:19 - 00:10:59:12So that means you're returning the back to a position where they
00:11:00:01 - 00:11:02:21if they attained anything like increases
00:11:02:21 - 00:11:05:18promotions and increase in security,
00:11:06:00 - 00:11:10:01increase in benefits, etc., you turn them into that
00:11:10:22 - 00:11:13:16that role with those benefits, they would have a attained.
00:11:14:00 - 00:11:14:18Interesting.
00:11:14:18 - 00:11:16:04So it's a really nice feature.
00:11:16:04 - 00:11:18:10They shouldn't have to suffer because they served our country.
00:11:18:17 - 00:11:19:06Absolutely.
00:11:20:13 - 00:11:21:11So as we
00:11:21:11 - 00:11:25:01wrap up the episode today, I just kind of want to end with what
00:11:25:05 - 00:11:28:02other concerns or issues you hear that members
00:11:28:02 - 00:11:30:18bring up to you regarding leaves on the hotline?
00:11:31:04 - 00:11:31:14Yeah.
00:11:31:14 - 00:11:34:22So I think, you know, in the most part I think the leaves go quite well.
00:11:35:04 - 00:11:40:13You know, like anything else, if we work with empathy, communicate well, have
00:11:40:13 - 00:11:44:16expectations laid out, have an agreement, understand return dates.
00:11:44:16 - 00:11:48:21I think those can work well between employee, manager, and HR.
00:11:48:21 - 00:11:51:04But we know not all things work out well.
00:11:51:14 - 00:11:55:19And that's the kind of the calls we get to at the hotline is helping people
00:11:55:19 - 00:11:58:23when they're a little bit frustrated because things are going as expected.
00:11:59:09 - 00:12:01:11And when they said they would accommodate a leave.
00:12:01:11 - 00:12:05:17What we try to do in those situations, for example, there's a misconception
00:12:06:11 - 00:12:07:06out there that
00:12:08:09 - 00:12:09:02you can't
00:12:09:02 - 00:12:11:21fire, can't terminate, can't discipline,
00:12:12:04 - 00:12:14:12can't manage people's expectations when they're on leave.
00:12:15:09 - 00:12:17:06And that is simply untrue.
00:12:17:06 - 00:12:21:05And those things can be done if they're done fairly,
00:12:21:10 - 00:12:24:00objectively, you know, for business reasons,
00:12:25:03 - 00:12:28:12in that for any discriminatory reason, things can go wrong.
00:12:29:06 - 00:12:32:02If we're not communicating well, a good example of
00:12:32:02 - 00:12:34:10when you can terminate someone when they're on leave
00:12:35:04 - 00:12:37:12is if someone's on leave and unfortunately,
00:12:37:12 - 00:12:40:14a company has make a decision to do a restructuring
00:12:41:15 - 00:12:44:01and they're looking at limiting positions.
00:12:44:01 - 00:12:47:16If they have a role that's on the list,
00:12:47:16 - 00:12:52:05that role in that employee who's on leave that is in the role can be terminated.
00:12:52:19 - 00:12:55:09And no means would you have to bump someone
00:12:56:01 - 00:12:58:09as from losing their job because someone's on leave.
00:12:59:08 - 00:13:00:06Interesting.
00:13:00:06 - 00:13:00:20Yeah.
00:13:00:20 - 00:13:04:14Another situation that we think about is that when it comes
00:13:04:14 - 00:13:09:04to disciplining people, you know, all of our employees are expected to,
00:13:09:05 - 00:13:12:05you know, contribute to the company, have good attitudes,
00:13:13:03 - 00:13:16:20be professional, follow policies, follow you, call on procedures
00:13:17:16 - 00:13:21:07and whether or not that's when we need to step in and discipline
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:24:14in is performance
00:13:24:14 - 00:13:27:00a person who's on leave is not immune to that.
00:13:27:00 - 00:13:29:01They still need to do their job and perform well.
00:13:29:08 - 00:13:32:20And if a person's on leave and those discussions were happening
00:13:32:20 - 00:13:36:05before they left, the manager should be resuming
00:13:36:05 - 00:13:38:08those conversations as soon as the person leaves.
00:13:39:05 - 00:13:41:11Well, there's some good real life examples
00:13:41:11 - 00:13:44:02that a lot of employers can resonate with those.
00:13:44:10 - 00:13:48:06So are there any other resources that you would recommend to employers?
00:13:48:23 - 00:13:49:09I would.
00:13:49:09 - 00:13:52:04So I did mention earlier our disability toolkit.
00:13:52:12 - 00:13:54:03Those begin really comprehensive.
00:13:54:03 - 00:13:56:06I think very helpful to use.
00:13:56:06 - 00:13:59:05Obviously calling the hotline I think is a really important tool
00:13:59:05 - 00:14:02:13because these are, you know, complex things that should be talked through.
00:14:02:21 - 00:14:04:12Even if you think you understand.
00:14:04:12 - 00:14:07:05And what you could be handling is always good to talk through it.
00:14:07:05 - 00:14:11:16Make sure your hitting all the points, And then we do have a really great
00:14:11:16 - 00:14:15:10training class that we offer that's called supervisor and the law.
00:14:16:09 - 00:14:19:20It's in-person or virtual and it includes leaves.
00:14:20:05 - 00:14:22:02It's available for our supervisors. Good.
00:14:22:02 - 00:14:25:14We'll link from the show notes to for for our viewers.
00:14:26:09 - 00:14:28:14Yeah. And I learned a lot. Sure.
00:14:28:19 - 00:14:30:12You helped a lot of people out today.
00:14:30:12 - 00:14:32:08So thank you for being our guest today.
00:14:32:08 - 00:14:35:04In 30 minutes Thrive and really sharing your knowledge
00:14:35:04 - 00:14:38:15and what you hear on this hot topic on the hotline.
00:14:39:05 - 00:14:43:13So if you liked our chat and topic today, I encourage you to share this episode,
00:14:43:13 - 00:14:46:08like give it a review, share it with your friends,
00:14:46:17 - 00:14:50:00and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:14:50:06 - 00:14:53:12We have linked all resources in the show notes below for you,
00:14:53:21 - 00:14:56:02so you should be all prepared for that.
00:14:56:02 - 00:15:00:03And we've also linked Amy's LinkedIn profile in the show notes,
00:15:00:13 - 00:15:03:04as well as MRA's hotline information.
00:15:03:04 - 00:15:07:08So if you want to get in touch with her or get connected with the hotline,
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:11:18we have that available for you in the show notes to thank you for tuning in today.
00:15:11:18 - 00:15:15:07And thank you, Amy, for being a great guest and we will.
00:15:15:07 - 00:15:17:13See you next week. That was fun. Thanks.
 

5 Core Tools to Lead Your Intern Program

Description: This week, we've got an encouraging conversation with Courtney Lamers, Senior Manager of Member Engagement at MRA, as she shares her expertise on interns and gives you 5 core tools to lead your internship program!
Key Takeaways:
Don't let your interns be bored! Give them meaningful work. Interns want to learn and grow. 
Help your interns explore your business. Have them sit in on meetings, meet other leaders, have lunch with the CEO, etc. 
Give them opportunities to network! Take them to networking events, get them to interact with other interns, etc. 
Resources:
MRA's Intern Leadership Program 
Interns as a Valuable Resource Guide 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Courtney Lamers 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Courtney Lamers 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:14:06Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR, MRA has got you
00:00:14:06 - 00:00:14:18covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:15We'll be the first, to tell you what's hot, and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:22:21Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:22:21 - 00:00:23:15Welcome, everyone.
00:00:23:15 - 00:00:24:16We're glad you're here today
00:00:24:16 - 00:00:28:11and spending some time with us to learn more about intern programs.
00:00:28:19 - 00:00:32:09I'm excited to introduce to you our guest, Courtney Lamers.
00:00:32:17 - 00:00:36:03She's our senior manager of member engagement here at MRA.
00:00:36:03 - 00:00:39:16A little fun fact about Courtney is she actually started out
00:00:39:16 - 00:00:45:00as an intern here at MRA, as did I, and worked her way up to project manager
00:00:45:00 - 00:00:49:14and to where she is now, as senior manager of member engagement.
00:00:49:14 - 00:00:52:04And she did that all in just over five years.
00:00:52:16 - 00:00:57:16So I want to start out with a little fun question here today, and do a little blast
00:00:57:16 - 00:01:01:17from the past, and that is, what is your favorite memory as an intern?
00:01:02:06 - 00:01:04:10Oh, that's such a good question.
00:01:04:10 - 00:01:06:00Thanks for having me here too, today.
00:01:06:00 - 00:01:07:09I'm excited to be back.
00:01:07:09 - 00:01:10:12I know it's a fun topic and especially a hot topic right now.
00:01:11:07 - 00:01:15:06Okay, Favorite memory as an intern, I am super fortunate
00:01:15:06 - 00:01:19:06because I've had a couple of different internship experiences, so I've
00:01:19:19 - 00:01:23:03I have quite a few memories, but I think one of my favorites, was
00:01:23:03 - 00:01:27:23when I worked for a company and they had 80 interns on their entire program.
00:01:27:23 - 00:01:29:14So I had the chance to work
00:01:29:14 - 00:01:33:12with a couple of them on a project, and we worked on it.
00:01:33:12 - 00:01:35:01We went and volunteered for the day,
00:01:35:01 - 00:01:39:00and then we put a business case together for our company to volunteer
00:01:39:00 - 00:01:43:06to reimburse that company and donate some of that money to the nonprofit.
00:01:43:12 - 00:01:48:00So we presented in front of the entire company, which it was a huge company
00:01:48:16 - 00:01:52:03that we actually ran into the CEO when we were practicing, and he was like,
00:01:52:03 - 00:01:53:15What time are you guys on?
00:01:53:15 - 00:01:57:09And he ended up coming and watching our presentation, and we
00:01:57:09 - 00:02:02:04ended up winning the whole entire--share tank is what they called it. And
00:02:03:10 - 00:02:05:00so it was just a very real experience.
00:02:05:00 - 00:02:05:16And I'm still friends
00:02:05:16 - 00:02:08:21with both of the interns today, so I think the connections you make
00:02:08:21 - 00:02:11:10and just the opportunities you have to grow is so important.
00:02:11:10 - 00:02:15:05But I would say that was probably one of that really stands out to me.
00:02:15:05 - 00:02:17:22Like I still remember it to this day, but how about you?
00:02:17:22 - 00:02:20:06I mean, you have had some internship experiences to.
00:02:20:18 - 00:02:22:14Thowing it back at me.
00:02:22:14 - 00:02:25:11Yeah, this is a two-way here.--making you participate.
00:02:26:02 - 00:02:29:16Well, like you said, I feel like I have a lot of memories as an intern.
00:02:29:16 - 00:02:33:18Not that it was that long ago, but I did experience
00:02:33:18 - 00:02:38:03my first true business trip as an intern, and that was super fun.
00:02:38:03 - 00:02:40:10We got to. I actually went with you.
00:02:40:10 - 00:02:45:00It was a good time and we got to meet some of our member companies
00:02:45:00 - 00:02:49:23and some of the interns participating in MRA's intern program, which was super fun.
00:02:50:10 - 00:02:54:23And then another one was just planning a tailgate event
00:02:54:23 - 00:02:58:12that we hosted here in Wisconsin office
00:02:59:08 - 00:03:01:22at MRA It was kind of an open house
00:03:01:22 - 00:03:05:13where members came and looked at our new facility
00:03:05:13 - 00:03:10:17and that was just a fun event to plan and see it all kind of lay out.
00:03:11:02 - 00:03:14:00So we're both a part of your internship itself,
00:03:14:00 - 00:03:17:06or do you think those are extra things that you got to work on
00:03:17:06 - 00:03:21:05just to make it a fun experience or like what made it so special, I guess?
00:03:21:07 - 00:03:22:20Well, I would say it's a little bit of both.
00:03:22:20 - 00:03:24:12They were part of my intern duties,
00:03:24:12 - 00:03:28:08but it was also a little extra kind of fun stuff too.
00:03:28:20 - 00:03:33:00But I think it helped to just kind of get away from my normal
00:03:33:00 - 00:03:37:01like I was a marketing intern, you know, like event planning goes
00:03:37:01 - 00:03:41:13along with that, but business trips don't necessarily go along with that.
00:03:41:13 - 00:03:46:06So I think it was fun to just get involved in as many things as I could
00:03:46:06 - 00:03:50:05and as many projects with as many people as I could do and so on.
00:03:50:06 - 00:03:52:17So I think it's all about that experience.
00:03:52:17 - 00:03:53:08Totally.
00:03:53:08 - 00:03:57:20Yeah, Well, it is a season to begin hiring interns
00:03:57:20 - 00:04:01:00and it's something that's really circling employers minds right now.
00:04:01:07 - 00:04:04:05And you actually created MRA's
00:04:04:05 - 00:04:06:23Intern Leadership Program that we were just talking about.
00:04:07:06 - 00:04:10:06So can you tell us a little bit more about that for the people
00:04:10:06 - 00:04:12:02who may not be familiar with it?
00:04:12:02 - 00:04:13:06Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:13:06 - 00:04:19:02So this program was created really to help interns have an exceptional experience.
00:04:19:10 - 00:04:24:01So from an employer standpoint, we use it to help attract and retain interns.
00:04:24:10 - 00:04:27:10So some of the companies would put this on their website as a Hey,
00:04:27:10 - 00:04:29:05apply for our organization.
00:04:29:05 - 00:04:31:11We invest in your professional development.
00:04:31:11 - 00:04:34:19We really want you to have a great experience and grow yourself as a leader.
00:04:35:12 - 00:04:37:22So from an attraction standpoint, I think it really helped,
00:04:38:04 - 00:04:39:10and same with retention.
00:04:39:10 - 00:04:42:22So they go through this program with almost 100 other interns,
00:04:43:06 - 00:04:45:18and they have the opportunity to network.
00:04:45:18 - 00:04:47:13So from an intern standpoint,
00:04:47:13 - 00:04:51:10you really get that professional development experience, plus,
00:04:51:18 - 00:04:56:05that whole network of 100 other interns, plus, all of the business leaders
00:04:56:05 - 00:04:57:06in our community.
00:04:57:06 - 00:04:58:19So it's about a ten week program.
00:04:58:19 - 00:05:01:12We get together with the interns every week,
00:05:01:12 - 00:05:04:12really just giving them that real life experience,
00:05:04:22 - 00:05:08:14and giving them a chance to get together and learn from each other as well.
00:05:09:00 - 00:05:12:12So from a company standpoint, it's the attraction and retention,
00:05:12:17 - 00:05:15:20and then providing that exceptional experience for the interns.
00:05:16:12 - 00:05:18:11And just kind of taking a step back out here.
00:05:19:12 - 00:05:20:21So companies are
00:05:20:21 - 00:05:23:15starting to look to hire interns right now.
00:05:23:21 - 00:05:29:03So where should they be looking and how should they start hiring interns?
00:05:29:03 - 00:05:31:05Yeah, I mean, definitely start early.
00:05:31:05 - 00:05:35:03I think time goes so quickly and it's so easy to be like, Oh my gosh,
00:05:35:03 - 00:05:36:01summer is around the corner.
00:05:36:01 - 00:05:39:21I really want an internship or an intern to help with some work.
00:05:40:04 - 00:05:44:09But I think it's important to kind of have that plan of what does that look like?
00:05:45:12 - 00:05:47:09I definitely think it's important
00:05:47:09 - 00:05:51:10to get involved in schools, whether it's a university or tech school.
00:05:51:10 - 00:05:54:00Both have great opportunities to connect with students
00:05:55:01 - 00:05:58:09and it's also good to reach out to those departments or student groups.
00:05:58:17 - 00:06:01:19I know obviously where at HR Professional organization.
00:06:02:00 - 00:06:06:01So we had our recruiting team just went to UW-Whitewater SHRM group the other day.
00:06:06:18 - 00:06:09:11So i think it's important to connect with those professors
00:06:09:11 - 00:06:11:21or student groups and just the schools and general
00:06:12:19 - 00:06:15:17handshake is also a popular tool for internships
00:06:16:12 - 00:06:19:19and then networking, I think asking your employees
00:06:19:19 - 00:06:23:00if they have any referrals or, you know, asking your
00:06:23:05 - 00:06:26:00your kid's friends if they're looking for an internship.
00:06:26:00 - 00:06:30:05I think it really is about that network of the people that can
00:06:30:09 - 00:06:33:02you know, you always get a good referral from somebody that you know.
00:06:33:12 - 00:06:35:11And then lastly, I would just plug our MRA.
00:06:35:11 - 00:06:38:16I know our recruiting team Halter record interns last summer as well.
00:06:38:21 - 00:06:41:21So everything from the poll, seeing the sourcing and the screening,
00:06:41:21 - 00:06:43:18we can definitely help with that too. Totally.
00:06:43:18 - 00:06:48:15And you just mentioned being active and available on college campuses,
00:06:48:15 - 00:06:52:00but I'm also right and just seeing that employers
00:06:52:00 - 00:06:55:13are working as early as high schoolers, too, which is crazy.
00:06:55:13 - 00:06:56:08But it's true.
00:06:56:08 - 00:06:58:16It's like the earlier you can get in front of people,
00:06:58:17 - 00:07:00:10honestly, the better at this point.
00:07:00:10 - 00:07:02:18Yeah, well, I think I mean, every employer has talked
00:07:02:18 - 00:07:05:18about the war for talent and how hard it is to find talent.
00:07:06:00 - 00:07:09:10So the earlier you get in front of them and share what your business does,
00:07:09:10 - 00:07:12:13what different opportunities there are, that's who those students are going
00:07:12:13 - 00:07:15:15to remember and two, five, ten years from now.
00:07:15:15 - 00:07:18:01So it's a long term gamble. Sure.
00:07:18:01 - 00:07:21:10So let's say you're a company that's never really invested
00:07:21:10 - 00:07:24:14in interns, never had the opportunity.
00:07:24:23 - 00:07:27:06What is your advice on a company like that?
00:07:27:06 - 00:07:30:13Should they be looking into that or interns for everybody?
00:07:30:13 - 00:07:33:15And what if it's like a super small company?
00:07:33:20 - 00:07:36:00Yeah, it was a lot of questions, you know, it's that.
00:07:36:05 - 00:07:39:09Well, I think honestly, I don't think size really matters.
00:07:39:15 - 00:07:43:06I think you have to take a step back and say, Why do I want an intern?
00:07:43:12 - 00:07:43:20Is that
00:07:43:20 - 00:07:48:12because we have so much work to do that we can't possibly do it by ourselves?
00:07:48:12 - 00:07:51:15Is that because you're truly looking to build that talent supply chain?
00:07:51:23 - 00:07:56:06So understanding that why first helps you build out your program,
00:07:56:17 - 00:08:00:06I think you also have to take a look at do you have enough meaningful work
00:08:00:06 - 00:08:04:10for the interns because they're trying to get a good experience too.
00:08:04:10 - 00:08:06:03And I'm not saying you can't file paperwork.
00:08:06:03 - 00:08:09:09It's all part of the day to day work, but I think they need
00:08:09:09 - 00:08:12:17to have a capstone project or something that can help them build their resume.
00:08:12:22 - 00:08:15:18And I think from an employer standpoint, you'll be really surprised
00:08:15:18 - 00:08:19:09and happy with the quality of work that interns can do.
00:08:20:10 - 00:08:21:19And then lastly, I would say,
00:08:21:19 - 00:08:24:20do you have a manager or someone on your team
00:08:24:20 - 00:08:28:00that can take the time to help mentor and coach those interns
00:08:28:00 - 00:08:30:05just because a lot of them get is their first job.
00:08:30:05 - 00:08:33:05So they're going to have questions and they want to do a good job,
00:08:33:05 - 00:08:35:16so they just have to have the resources to be successful.
00:08:36:02 - 00:08:40:11Honestly, I interned at a fairly small company and I got to go on a workshop too.
00:08:40:12 - 00:08:43:04So again, another memory I actually went down to New Orleans
00:08:43:04 - 00:08:45:12for the 10th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina.
00:08:45:22 - 00:08:49:12But I think because it was a smaller group that I was working with,
00:08:49:12 - 00:08:52:15I had the opportunity to do a lot of different, cool projects
00:08:52:15 - 00:08:55:16that sometimes when you were at the bigger companies, it's so specialized,
00:08:55:16 - 00:08:58:04so I don't think size of the company really matters.
00:08:58:04 - 00:09:02:03But overall, I'd say it's important to understand like what your goals are.
00:09:02:04 - 00:09:06:07Yeah, I was the only intern here too, and I have no complaints.
00:09:06:07 - 00:09:10:13Honestly, I feel like it was the best internship I could have had.
00:09:11:13 - 00:09:12:03This is
00:09:12:03 - 00:09:14:19because I got special treatment because I was the only one.
00:09:15:06 - 00:09:18:07And but no, I think definitely having a capstone
00:09:18:14 - 00:09:22:02project helped and even having a couple of them, it's
00:09:22:02 - 00:09:25:10like you can always have them in your back pocket if you if you don't
00:09:25:10 - 00:09:28:14want to do a project that you're currently working on, pull out your capstone.
00:09:28:14 - 00:09:32:11Like it's just nice to always have in your back pocket.
00:09:32:19 - 00:09:34:01Well, and companies have gotten
00:09:34:01 - 00:09:37:14really creative with different projects interns can work on.
00:09:37:20 - 00:09:39:05Like I know there was one company
00:09:39:05 - 00:09:42:18that had their interns go through all their standard operating procedures
00:09:42:23 - 00:09:46:05and document it, and it was a huge project to take on
00:09:46:05 - 00:09:50:02because they had nothing documented, but it really gave the Intern
00:09:50:02 - 00:09:51:23a chance to be like, Well, why do you do it like this?
00:09:51:23 - 00:09:54:18And just ask and then, I mean, like, you know, I don't know.
00:09:54:18 - 00:09:56:00I would do it like that.
00:09:56:00 - 00:09:59:17And so to be able for that student to then go say, Yeah, my last company,
00:09:59:17 - 00:10:03:17I help document our processes and, you know, make recommendations for change.
00:10:03:17 - 00:10:06:17And I think he actually presented it to their senior leadership team,
00:10:06:17 - 00:10:08:18which was awesome. It's awesome. Yeah.
00:10:08:18 - 00:10:12:08Well, kind of going off of that, let's say a company
00:10:12:08 - 00:10:16:01has a group of interns, but they never have really created
00:10:16:01 - 00:10:19:09an intern program to go with the intern group.
00:10:19:21 - 00:10:22:19So what is your advice around that?
00:10:22:19 - 00:10:27:15Should there be a intern program that the interns follow?
00:10:28:04 - 00:10:32:00I think structure definitely helps when you take a step back.
00:10:32:00 - 00:10:36:13It really is all about the experience, but when you have somebody in one building
00:10:36:13 - 00:10:40:14and somebody in the other, you want them to have similar experiences.
00:10:40:14 - 00:10:43:18And I know we've talked to interns in the past where maybe one
00:10:43:18 - 00:10:48:03manager is really engaged and they buy the intern lunch
00:10:48:03 - 00:10:50:13and they buy their intern swag, and then the other one's like,
00:10:50:18 - 00:10:52:11I don't even know who my manager is.
00:10:52:11 - 00:10:53:22My manager doesn't talk to me.
00:10:53:22 - 00:10:56:05So I think it really is about putting that structure in place.
00:10:56:05 - 00:11:01:04So no matter what your manager is like or what projects you're working
00:11:01:04 - 00:11:03:10on, you have a similar experience
00:11:03:10 - 00:11:06:18and I guess I would say that with all internships, the interns talk,
00:11:06:18 - 00:11:09:01especially with social media and that type of thing.
00:11:09:01 - 00:11:11:11Your brand is out there with your experience.
00:11:11:11 - 00:11:13:21So really think, take a look at what do you want
00:11:14:03 - 00:11:17:12your interns to be saying to other interns and to their families
00:11:17:12 - 00:11:20:13that night and their roommates and whoever they're talking to.
00:11:20:13 - 00:11:23:18It really puts your brand out there.
00:11:24:12 - 00:11:28:09The other thing I would say is, if you can onboard all of the interns together,
00:11:28:14 - 00:11:32:06I think that would be very beneficial, because you kind of build a bond when you
00:11:32:06 - 00:11:35:21start working on the same day as someone, even if you're in a different department.
00:11:35:21 - 00:11:39:16So it gives them an opportunity to, you know, be together
00:11:39:16 - 00:11:43:19and really start fresh and have that same experience.
00:11:43:19 - 00:11:46:22I would also say if you can have a you know, if you have multiple interns,
00:11:46:22 - 00:11:50:16if you can give them an opportunity to work on a project together, maybe
00:11:50:16 - 00:11:54:00that's not specific to their department, but could help the business as a whole.
00:11:54:06 - 00:11:56:16I think that could be a really fun way to get them together to.
00:11:56:20 - 00:11:57:13Oh, totally.
00:11:57:13 - 00:12:00:15I feel like interns want to meet each other and want to be
00:12:00:15 - 00:12:04:14like friends outside of work too, So that's a good idea.
00:12:05:08 - 00:12:10:13So I guess I'm curious to know your five core tools
00:12:10:13 - 00:12:14:19that you would kind of put together that all intern programs should have,
00:12:14:19 - 00:12:17:18and you start with the first one, but what would you say that is?
00:12:17:21 - 00:12:19:09I would say first and foremost,
00:12:20:08 - 00:12:21:06the manager is the
00:12:21:06 - 00:12:25:01most important piece of this So, you know, from an HR standpoint,
00:12:25:01 - 00:12:28:14you probably have managers coming to you saying, I need an intern.
00:12:28:14 - 00:12:30:00And I think that's great.
00:12:30:00 - 00:12:32:07And maybe they do, and maybe they have a plan,
00:12:32:07 - 00:12:34:05and they had a great internship experience.
00:12:34:05 - 00:12:38:16But I mean, we talked about this earlier today is people don't quit their job.
00:12:38:16 - 00:12:39:20They quit their manager.
00:12:39:20 - 00:12:43:12So and especially at that intern level, they want an opportunity to learn
00:12:43:21 - 00:12:47:01to get coaching, to have that mentorship experience.
00:12:47:01 - 00:12:48:13So you really have to have that
00:12:48:13 - 00:12:52:18right person in place to help manage and coach those interns.
00:12:52:18 - 00:12:57:02The feedback part of an internship is also very important,
00:12:57:09 - 00:13:00:21and I know we talked about this, I mean, I think it's so easy,
00:13:01:01 - 00:13:04:03and like you started ,and you did a great job from day one,
00:13:04:10 - 00:13:07:13and it's so easy to just like have that expectation
00:13:07:13 - 00:13:09:12that everything you do is going to be great.
00:13:09:12 - 00:13:13:01And I got I got into the habit of saying like, Great, thanks, I appreciate it.
00:13:13:01 - 00:13:15:05Like, everything's perfect, like, looks good.
00:13:15:10 - 00:13:19:12And you're like, like, I know, but can you give me something more specific?
00:13:19:12 - 00:13:22:10And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're right. And like, I think about myself, too.
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:26:10Like, I would want specific feedback of what am I doing right
00:13:26:10 - 00:13:28:01and what is so great about it.
00:13:28:01 - 00:13:31:14And I think it helped you kind of build on top of what you were doing, right?
00:13:31:14 - 00:13:33:10I don't know. Totally. And you want to say on that?
00:13:33:10 - 00:13:37:08I don't what I was just going to go off that like, especially at the intern level,
00:13:37:08 - 00:13:40:23you're trying to learn as much as you can and you want to know
00:13:41:08 - 00:13:44:01what can I get better at and what am I doing?
00:13:44:01 - 00:13:45:07That's okay.
00:13:45:07 - 00:13:48:14So it's like that feedback is so important at an intern level,
00:13:48:14 - 00:13:51:06so it's like you can fix
00:13:51:23 - 00:13:54:23whatever you're doing wrong or not wrong, I should say.
00:13:54:23 - 00:13:57:00What you can improve on. Yeah.
00:13:57:05 - 00:13:58:08At the intern level.
00:13:58:08 - 00:14:00:15So that just as you continue to grow, you don't
00:14:00:15 - 00:14:02:16have to worry about those anymore.
00:14:02:16 - 00:14:04:12Yeah, and I know we were talking to one company
00:14:04:12 - 00:14:07:19and they were all they were raving in.
00:14:07:19 - 00:14:08:08You were with me.
00:14:08:08 - 00:14:10:13They were raving about how great their interns were.
00:14:10:13 - 00:14:14:02And like and their CEO said something about, like, I was really impressed
00:14:14:02 - 00:14:17:21with the interns this summer, and I was like, Oh, what did you do?
00:14:17:21 - 00:14:18:12Did they know that?
00:14:18:12 - 00:14:21:06Like, did you tell the interns how great they were?
00:14:21:06 - 00:14:21:22Like.
00:14:22:03 - 00:14:23:21I don't know if we ever did.
00:14:23:21 - 00:14:26:02I'd like to think about I was like, I think you should tell them.
00:14:26:02 - 00:14:29:18I think they would really like that feedback and, and especially the CEO.
00:14:29:20 - 00:14:34:01Is that how impressed that she was with them, it's such a cool experience.
00:14:34:01 - 00:14:36:20And for the intern to really carry that confidence with them
00:14:37:06 - 00:14:40:13on something that everybody else knows, but maybe they don't know.
00:14:40:13 - 00:14:43:19Absolutely. So what about the second tool?
00:14:43:19 - 00:14:47:08Yeah, I think meaningful work is a huge piece of it.
00:14:47:15 - 00:14:51:12I know company is sometimes we'll be like, I'll just get an intern and help me file
00:14:51:12 - 00:14:52:22paperwork and that's great.
00:14:52:22 - 00:14:57:07And like we said, it's part of the job sometimes, but the meaningful work really
00:14:57:20 - 00:15:00:10helps the interns learn and grow.
00:15:00:10 - 00:15:04:13And I would also say they're capable of doing more than just filing paperwork,
00:15:04:13 - 00:15:06:00so don't let them
00:15:07:11 - 00:15:09:20hold that back.
00:15:09:20 - 00:15:12:20I would also give them a meaningful project to work on all summer.
00:15:12:20 - 00:15:16:16We talked about that capstone project and also,
00:15:16:16 - 00:15:19:21I mean, what we did with you as we we created,
00:15:19:21 - 00:15:23:03I think, three and a half pages of things that I never got to.
00:15:23:04 - 00:15:24:23Some of the other people on our team never got to do.
00:15:24:23 - 00:15:28:11And I was like, It'd be awesome if this could get done.
00:15:28:17 - 00:15:29:14We'd be like, Here you go.
00:15:29:14 - 00:15:32:05And just kind of let you run because of those.
00:15:32:05 - 00:15:35:11Yeah, we weren't getting to it, so it would be an extra benefit for you
00:15:35:11 - 00:15:36:09to be part of it.
00:15:36:09 - 00:15:39:06When they accept an internship, they have three different opportunities
00:15:39:07 - 00:15:41:21to have an internship, so they get to be picky.
00:15:41:21 - 00:15:43:17They're really in the driver's seat.
00:15:43:17 - 00:15:44:15And so,
00:15:44:16 - 00:15:48:11I mean, I'm just saying, like I saw interns that were at a company
00:15:48:11 - 00:15:50:00for like a week, two weeks,
00:15:50:00 - 00:15:51:23and they were like, I got a different internship experience.
00:15:51:23 - 00:15:52:16I'm leaving.
00:15:52:16 - 00:15:55:17So even before the program, and during the program,
00:15:55:17 - 00:15:57:00and then even after the program.
00:15:57:00 - 00:16:01:00And so you want to retain them, it’s so important to make sure
00:16:01:00 - 00:16:04:00that you're providing the best experience no matter what.
00:16:04:08 - 00:16:06:13So I think that meaningful work is huge.
00:16:06:22 - 00:16:10:02And I you know, we've also talked to like people have said,
00:16:11:03 - 00:16:12:18I'm bored of my managers in a meeting.
00:16:12:18 - 00:16:14:19I can't I don't know nothing to do.
00:16:14:19 - 00:16:17:20And they go talk to other people and some people don't take the initiative
00:16:17:20 - 00:16:18:23to do that either.
00:16:18:23 - 00:16:22:14But don't let your interns be bored like your paying them to help with stuff.
00:16:22:14 - 00:16:24:15And I think they are capable of so much.
00:16:24:20 - 00:16:25:06Oh yeah.
00:16:25:06 - 00:16:28:07You just talked about the three pages,
00:16:28:07 - 00:16:31:13so I've got notes that you gave me, your projects that you gave me.
00:16:31:13 - 00:16:34:08And I will say I told you on the first day, I was like,
00:16:34:15 - 00:16:37:03Oh my gosh, how am I going to get any of this done?
00:16:37:03 - 00:16:40:15I'm like, I remember going home, like man, I got three pages.
00:16:41:02 - 00:16:44:00But then by the end of my internship, it was like man,
00:16:44:00 - 00:16:48:22I was able to complete 85% of that or even if I did 50%.
00:16:48:22 - 00:16:51:01It's like, look at how much I did.
00:16:51:01 - 00:16:55:16And it wasn't that intimidating when I looked at it at the end of my internship
00:16:55:16 - 00:16:59:21and it was nice to be like, Oh, well, I could go work on this project
00:16:59:21 - 00:17:03:15with this department or, Oh, look at this project, it's with IT.
00:17:04:06 - 00:17:07:15So it wasn't just my typical marketing projects.
00:17:07:15 - 00:17:09:18It was a good realm of.
00:17:10:14 - 00:17:13:14Yeah, maybe a note to managers, create that list,
00:17:13:14 - 00:17:15:14but don't share it on the first day.
00:17:15:18 - 00:17:17:08We might have even sent it to you before.
00:17:17:08 - 00:17:19:03Like, look at all these fun projects.
00:17:19:03 - 00:17:20:13You're probably like, Oh gosh, no.
00:17:20:13 - 00:17:24:12But it was a good thing to be like, This is all of the things
00:17:24:12 - 00:17:28:14that you can accomplish in your internship and just a short summer that we have.
00:17:28:19 - 00:17:32:09Well, and think about how much you did that wasn't even on that list.
00:17:32:09 - 00:17:36:06It would be like you'd be working on item number eight, and I'd be like, Sophie,
00:17:36:06 - 00:17:37:01I need help with this.
00:17:37:01 - 00:17:37:19Like, you got this.
00:17:37:19 - 00:17:40:07Done in the next couple hours and you're like, Oh yeah, of course.
00:17:40:07 - 00:17:43:06And so it's like you you did so much more than even that list.
00:17:43:06 - 00:17:46:21Which is, yeah, I'm so, you know, so just moving on.
00:17:46:21 - 00:17:49:17How about third? The third tool. Tool.
00:17:50:18 - 00:17:51:12The third tool
00:17:51:12 - 00:17:54:06I would say is help the interns explore the business.
00:17:54:13 - 00:17:56:13I remember for myself,
00:17:56:13 - 00:18:00:01I wanted to learn as much as possible, even beyond marketing.
00:18:00:08 - 00:18:03:20And I like I remember being a sophomore in college and kind of
00:18:03:20 - 00:18:07:12getting to the point of them saying, like, you need to declare your major.
00:18:07:12 - 00:18:09:21I'm like, Hey, like business, I guess.
00:18:09:21 - 00:18:10:14Like, I don't know.
00:18:10:14 - 00:18:14:16And I ended up picking marketing, but not really for any reason.
00:18:14:16 - 00:18:17:23Besides, somebody had told me one time, like, I think you'd be good at marketing.
00:18:17:23 - 00:18:19:22And I'm like, Well, I guess that sounds good.
00:18:19:22 - 00:18:20:13And then I
00:18:20:13 - 00:18:24:02had a couple of marketing internships and I really like different aspects of it,
00:18:24:07 - 00:18:28:05and I think all of the experiences I've had have led me to where I am today.
00:18:28:14 - 00:18:31:19But it's been that ability to work on projects
00:18:31:19 - 00:18:35:16outside of my department and being able to work with other leaders.
00:18:35:16 - 00:18:38:20And I think that's something we hear too, from interns,
00:18:38:21 - 00:18:42:12even like for example, with HR It's like, okay, I'm an HR major,
00:18:42:12 - 00:18:44:19but there is so much to HR, like there's the compliance
00:18:44:19 - 00:18:48:23side, there’s the benefits side, and then there's recruiting and a lot of
00:18:49:05 - 00:18:52:09HR Interns tend to do recruiting or filing and they're like,
00:18:52:09 - 00:18:55:14i don't even know how to explore the other areas of HR
00:18:55:20 - 00:18:59:10So being able to give them as many opportunities as they can
00:19:00:11 - 00:19:02:21to just sit in the meetings with people
00:19:02:21 - 00:19:06:15or help with projects or have lunch with the ceo if it's possible.
00:19:06:15 - 00:19:07:17But really
00:19:07:17 - 00:19:09:15and I know we’ve said it a million times a day,
00:19:09:15 - 00:19:13:08they just want to learn and have different experiences to help them grow.
00:19:13:08 - 00:19:18:06And, and who knows, maybe someone in I.T ends up
00:19:18:06 - 00:19:20:10wanting to be in finance or something.
00:19:20:10 - 00:19:24:16It's like internships are there to, like you said, help interns
00:19:25:01 - 00:19:28:04learn more about the company and learn more about themselves to.
00:19:28:23 - 00:19:31:16It cracked me up, during one of our intern program
00:19:32:04 - 00:19:37:05business case discussions and presentations, we did one about accounting
00:19:37:05 - 00:19:41:05and finance for the non financial leader and I kind of teed it off.
00:19:41:06 - 00:19:44:07It was with our CFO and I was like, This is not my area.
00:19:44:07 - 00:19:46:15Like I'm more like creative, that type of thing.
00:19:46:23 - 00:19:49:04And like marketing, you know, whatever.
00:19:49:04 - 00:19:51:02Like that's, that's okay, this isn't your thing,
00:19:51:02 - 00:19:53:08but it's good for everyone to learn and get exposure to it.
00:19:53:16 - 00:19:57:19And we're meeting with a company and one of the marketing interns was like,
00:19:58:01 - 00:19:59:04That was my favorite session.
00:19:59:04 - 00:20:00:20And she's like, I might switch my major.
00:20:00:20 - 00:20:02:04And I'm like, That's awesome.
00:20:02:04 - 00:20:04:13Like, you know, you know, like, you just, I don't know.
00:20:04:13 - 00:20:06:02It's that exposure and
00:20:06:02 - 00:20:09:18experience that gives people the clarity of what they need for their careers.
00:20:09:22 - 00:20:11:07Oh, absolutely.
00:20:11:07 - 00:20:14:08So then going on to the fourth tool, what would you say.
00:20:15:07 - 00:20:17:07Networking is the other piece.
00:20:17:07 - 00:20:22:05I think giving them an opportunity to meet people both internally at your company.
00:20:22:05 - 00:20:25:09Obviously within your own department, but all their leaders
00:20:25:09 - 00:20:29:08in other areas of the business, but also other interns too.
00:20:29:08 - 00:20:34:04And honestly, like there is one company that he took it on himself
00:20:34:04 - 00:20:37:00to take every intern to one networking event.
00:20:37:08 - 00:20:39:20And I know he was like, we had a lot of interns last year,
00:20:39:20 - 00:20:41:06so I brought two of them
00:20:41:06 - 00:20:44:03with me to one of them, and I was like, I'm in a competition.
00:20:44:07 - 00:20:45:23Go talk to as many people as you can.
00:20:45:23 - 00:20:49:07And whoever wins, I can't remember if they got lunch or something like that,
00:20:49:14 - 00:20:53:04but they, they really just want to network.
00:20:53:04 - 00:20:54:12And I think it's hard, because
00:20:54:12 - 00:20:58:10especially if you think of COVID and the last couple of years with school
00:20:58:10 - 00:21:01:22being virtual and that type of thing, it's not an easy thing to do.
00:21:01:22 - 00:21:05:10So if you can be there and help mentor and help guide and just give them those
00:21:05:10 - 00:21:10:17opportunities, meeting people will really just allow them to grow in their careers.
00:21:10:17 - 00:21:14:01And I think I look back to the people that I've worked with
00:21:14:01 - 00:21:17:11in my last couple internships, and I still talk to a lot of them.
00:21:17:11 - 00:21:19:10I mean, like think about how many people you're so connected
00:21:19:10 - 00:21:22:22with from then here in program to just our member companies as well.
00:21:23:04 - 00:21:27:10I was going to say just the mini plug for the MRA's intern program.
00:21:27:10 - 00:21:28:19Again, you're given
00:21:28:19 - 00:21:33:02over 100 interns, right there that you're automatically connected with.
00:21:33:02 - 00:21:36:05So it's like you don't really have to go out and do that extra
00:21:36:05 - 00:21:41:07step of really like introducing yourself, finding I mean, yourself to do that.
00:21:41:07 - 00:21:43:04But it's there, all right there.
00:21:43:04 - 00:21:45:07And you see them every single week, some.
00:21:45:14 - 00:21:47:15Plus plus the business leaders.
00:21:47:15 - 00:21:48:22I mean, we have a different presenter
00:21:48:22 - 00:21:51:18every week of the program and all of the panels.
00:21:51:18 - 00:21:54:07I mean, over all, they probably met 30 other business leaders.
00:21:54:17 - 00:21:56:17But I just think it's a cool experience.
00:21:56:17 - 00:22:00:16And no matter what you can do to provide those experiences for them as huge.
00:22:00:16 - 00:22:04:01And I've still been in contact with a lot of people from the intern program
00:22:04:01 - 00:22:08:03from a couple of years ago, even help on my college project.
00:22:08:03 - 00:22:11:11One of them was able to help me out and we're still talking
00:22:11:11 - 00:22:14:05to a few of them now too, so yeah.
00:22:14:11 - 00:22:16:09Oh, it's fun. That's very cool.
00:22:16:09 - 00:22:19:06But I guess what is the last last thing
00:22:19:06 - 00:22:23:11that every intern program should have in order to be successful?
00:22:23:21 - 00:22:27:15Yeah, I think, you know, we covered the main pieces, but I think
00:22:28:02 - 00:22:29:23when an intern has a great experience
00:22:29:23 - 00:22:30:13and then when they're
00:22:30:13 - 00:22:34:14going into an internship, especially going into like their last year of school,
00:22:35:16 - 00:22:37:14they want to know what does the future look like?
00:22:37:14 - 00:22:38:18Do I have a place here?
00:22:38:18 - 00:22:40:01Do I not?
00:22:40:01 - 00:22:43:06And I think it's good to be open from the beginning.
00:22:43:06 - 00:22:46:20I mean, I know when we interviewed you, you had said, like, is there a possibility
00:22:46:20 - 00:22:50:02of a full time role after the internship is over?
00:22:50:21 - 00:22:52:09And I think we're pretty honest with you.
00:22:52:09 - 00:22:55:11And but we continue that conversation throughout the summer.
00:22:56:19 - 00:22:59:11And then obviously, once it got closer, we were pretty
00:23:00:07 - 00:23:04:12adamant that we were able to offer you something before you went back to school
00:23:04:12 - 00:23:08:05just because, like we said earlier, you have so many choices nowadays and
00:23:08:11 - 00:23:11:06you really are in the driver's seat and you made such an impact
00:23:11:06 - 00:23:14:12that we didn't want to lose you and we wanted to be flexible about it.
00:23:14:13 - 00:23:16:05We could work around your school schedule
00:23:16:05 - 00:23:18:20and you could work on projects and just keep you engaged
00:23:18:20 - 00:23:20:21throughout the school year that you wanted to come back.
00:23:21:04 - 00:23:23:12So I think having those conversations is huge.
00:23:23:21 - 00:23:27:13But I would also say that, you know, we talked about feedback from the manager
00:23:27:13 - 00:23:31:15to the intern, but I would say I would ask them to like for feedback.
00:23:31:15 - 00:23:34:13You know, there's a lot of companies that halfway through the program
00:23:34:21 - 00:23:37:12sits down with the interns and say, like, what's working?
00:23:37:12 - 00:23:39:20What's not? How is your manager?
00:23:39:21 - 00:23:41:02What do you need from us?
00:23:41:02 - 00:23:43:09And having those conversations.
00:23:43:09 - 00:23:48:18So, you know, after week ten or 11 or 12 or whatever it is, they leave and they do
00:23:48:18 - 00:23:52:09their exit interview and you're like, Wow, this person had a horrible experience.
00:23:52:09 - 00:23:53:23I wish I would have known earlier.
00:23:53:23 - 00:23:55:07And it's it's a two way street.
00:23:55:07 - 00:23:57:04So I think just having those conversations
00:23:58:09 - 00:23:59:11is huge,
00:23:59:11 - 00:24:02:11but I guess so I went through five things and I think we covered a lot of it.
00:24:02:11 - 00:24:05:01But like thinking back to your internship experience,
00:24:05:06 - 00:24:07:19was there anything I was missing like that?
00:24:07:19 - 00:24:11:11I didn't cover that you thought was either I wish you guys would have done this,
00:24:11:11 - 00:24:14:18or maybe like you did this really well, but we didn't touch this.
00:24:15:04 - 00:24:16:12Or do we cover it off.
00:24:16:12 - 00:24:19:03So, like, we covered or have
00:24:19:03 - 00:24:22:07all great stuff, I would just say, like you, like you said,
00:24:22:07 - 00:24:26:15to be very clear with the intern and have a good working relationship
00:24:26:15 - 00:24:29:16between the manager and the intern, I feel like that's almost
00:24:29:16 - 00:24:34:13make it or break it if you don't have a good relationship with your intern.
00:24:35:05 - 00:24:37:17Chances are its not going to be a great internship for them.
00:24:37:17 - 00:24:41:08So I would just say be very open
00:24:41:08 - 00:24:45:05and honest with them and provide feedback as much as you can.
00:24:46:15 - 00:24:49:11And yeah, everything else we said covered it.
00:24:49:11 - 00:24:50:15I'll do that.
00:24:50:15 - 00:24:54:13But as we wrap up here, do you have any last bits of advice
00:24:54:13 - 00:24:56:14or any last pieces to share with us?
00:24:56:14 - 00:24:58:07I have a few a little things.
00:24:58:07 - 00:25:01:10I know we talked a lot about that experience as an intern,
00:25:01:18 - 00:25:04:09but I just want to kind of remind employers,
00:25:05:12 - 00:25:07:21keeping them engaged after you give them an offer
00:25:07:21 - 00:25:09:20and keeping that excitement going
00:25:09:20 - 00:25:12:01is almost as important as getting them there,
00:25:12:01 - 00:25:14:18because if they don't show up on the first day, you have to start over.
00:25:15:00 - 00:25:19:01So really think about that excitement and that communication with them beforehand
00:25:20:14 - 00:25:23:07and then just a couple of little tactical things.
00:25:23:07 - 00:25:26:05But when we had our first internship program, I remember really
00:25:26:06 - 00:25:29:23one of the first weeks, we asked them like, what could your company do better?
00:25:29:23 - 00:25:32:03You know, we just want to provide some feedback.
00:25:32:11 - 00:25:34:02And I think like half of them were like,
00:25:34:02 - 00:25:36:02I don't even have my manager cell phone number.
00:25:36:02 - 00:25:39:15Like, I just want to be able like if I get a flat tire to call them and say like,
00:25:40:04 - 00:25:41:18Hey, I'm not going to make it.
00:25:41:18 - 00:25:44:16Like I'm going to be a little bit late or I'm not feeling well today or whatever
00:25:44:16 - 00:25:49:02it might be just to have that phone number in that contact information was huge.
00:25:49:07 - 00:25:52:05And from an employer standpoint, it's such an easy win, like I don't
00:25:52:05 - 00:25:56:11think--they're not going to contact you unless they need to or so And it almost.
00:25:56:11 - 00:25:57:18Gives them like
00:25:57:18 - 00:26:01:06it builds some trust, you know, like, hey, like, here's my phone number.
00:26:01:06 - 00:26:04:16I'm here whenever you want my whenever you need to reach me.
00:26:04:16 - 00:26:08:09And it's, it's like a little more personal than just like, here's my email.
00:26:08:14 - 00:26:11:02Yeah, email me whenever it's like, no, call me.
00:26:11:02 - 00:26:13:04Yeah, I need to. Call you if you need to.
00:26:13:04 - 00:26:15:00Yeah, I know there's one company
00:26:15:00 - 00:26:18:13that the CEO gave out the enter their phone number and they were like,
00:26:18:18 - 00:26:20:12We're excited to have you intern this summer.
00:26:20:12 - 00:26:22:19Here's my phone number. Call me if you need anything.
00:26:23:01 - 00:26:25:09And I'm pretty sure the intern never called,
00:26:25:09 - 00:26:28:03but it's kind of like, Wow, the CEO really cares about me.
00:26:28:04 - 00:26:31:04So kind of a cool touch, if you're willing to do that,
00:26:32:00 - 00:26:35:03the last thing I would say is think about what they need to know
00:26:35:03 - 00:26:37:20and again, a lot of them, this may be their first experience.
00:26:38:04 - 00:26:42:07And I remember when you emailed me and we're like, What do I wear?
00:26:42:13 - 00:26:43:17I was like.
00:26:43:17 - 00:26:45:03I was like, That's such a good question.
00:26:45:03 - 00:26:46:05Like, we never even told you.
00:26:46:05 - 00:26:48:03Like, we're business casual.
00:26:48:03 - 00:26:50:18Like you can wear what you know, whatever you're comfortable with.
00:26:50:18 - 00:26:53:22But we do dress business casual and it's like, I don't know, you just aren't.
00:26:54:00 - 00:26:57:14Yeah, you don't know those things and you don't want to mess up from the first day.
00:26:57:14 - 00:26:59:05And I give you a lot of credit for asking,
00:26:59:05 - 00:27:02:04but that should have been on the back of our minds to tell you too.
00:27:02:04 - 00:27:04:02So all things considered.
00:27:04:02 - 00:27:06:18Yeah, I know like, what do I wear? What's really fun?
00:27:06:18 - 00:27:08:04I missed something.
00:27:08:06 - 00:27:11:05But lastly, I have to say, when you're going through this program
00:27:11:13 - 00:27:13:12does a lot of the entire experience as a whole.
00:27:13:12 - 00:27:16:12It's all about the experience and it's you really want to leave
00:27:16:12 - 00:27:18:09that lasting impression with the interns.
00:27:18:09 - 00:27:20:18Absolutely. Great ending. Thank you.
00:27:21:07 - 00:27:24:01Well, I want to thank you for being a great guest today
00:27:24:01 - 00:27:27:05and really sharing your knowledge on how companies can either
00:27:27:05 - 00:27:29:22begin or enhance their intern programs.
00:27:30:08 - 00:27:34:20So if you liked our chat and topic today, make sure you share this episode.
00:27:35:03 - 00:27:38:06Leave a comment or review and consider joining MRA
00:27:38:06 - 00:27:40:11if you aren't a member already.
00:27:40:11 - 00:27:41:13We have all the resources
00:27:41:13 - 00:27:44:18you need in the show notes below, so make sure to take a look at those,
00:27:45:10 - 00:27:49:10including Courtney's email and LinkedIn profile in the show notes.
00:27:49:10 - 00:27:53:08So if you want to get in touch with her or learn more about the MRA's
00:27:53:08 - 00:27:56:23Intern Leadership Program, she's the girl to contact.
00:27:57:10 - 00:28:00:23Otherwise, thank you for tuning in today and thanks for all the great
00:28:00:23 - 00:28:03:17info, Courtney, and we will see you next week.
00:28:04:00 - 00:28:05:01Thanks for having me.
00:28:05:01 - 00:28:07:20And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:28:07:21 - 00:28:11:00Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect
00:28:11:00 - 00:28:12:16for more podcast updates,
00:28:12:16 - 00:28:16:11check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:28:16:12 - 00:28:21:10And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive, so you don't miss out.
00:28:21:11 - 00:28:24:15Thanks for tuning in ,and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on
00:28:24:17 - 00:28:26:00the HR conversation.
 

Navigating the Legal Landscape: Highlights from MRA’s Employment Law Update

Description: In today's episode, we're diving into the complex and ever-changing world of employment law. Understanding the ins and outs of this legal landscape is crucial whether you're an employer or an employee. We'll cover a wide range of topics, from risky labor practices to data breaches and everything in between.
We'll also explore recent developments in employment law, including the impact of remote work on the employment relationship, the effect of The State of the Union Address on employers, and the increasing importance of mental health in the workplace. Join us as we unpack the nuances of employment law and equip you with the knowledge you need to navigate this critical area of business and employment.
Resources:
Employment Law Update 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Christine Liu McLaughlin 
Guest Bio - Joel Aziere 
Guest Bio - Scott LeBlanc 
Guest Bio - Scott Reigle 
Guest Bio - Audrey Merkel 
Guest Bio - Craig Papka 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
 
Transcript:
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:13:14Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA
00:00:13:14 - 00:00:14:18has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:15We'll be the first, to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:23:07Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:23:07 - 00:00:26:16Hello and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:26:22 - 00:00:27:20We're glad you're here.
00:00:27:20 - 00:00:31:18And I am actually here at MRA's Wisconsin Employment Law Update,
00:00:32:00 - 00:00:35:05where attendees are gaining insight on how to remain resilient
00:00:35:12 - 00:00:39:12after this post pandemic uncertainty and economic change.
00:00:40:01 - 00:00:42:12We have over 600 people attending
00:00:42:12 - 00:00:45:07virtually and in person today, so it's a big event.
00:00:45:12 - 00:00:48:14And I will be talking with seven of the speakers from today
00:00:48:18 - 00:00:51:13who are all practicing attorneys in the area.
00:00:51:18 - 00:00:53:04So come along.
00:00:53:04 - 00:00:54:05Hello, everybody.
00:00:54:05 - 00:00:56:18I'm here with Christine Liu McLaughlin.
00:00:56:18 - 00:01:00:15Christine is a shareholder at Godfrey and Kahn’s Labor and Employment
00:01:00:15 - 00:01:04:14Practice Group, and she was actually the former practice group chair.
00:01:05:00 - 00:01:08:11Christine provides counsel on a wide variety of employment
00:01:08:11 - 00:01:12:06and labor issues ranging from interpretation and application
00:01:12:06 - 00:01:16:02of federal and state employment laws to specialized employee
00:01:16:02 - 00:01:19:11transition matters and complex business transaction.
00:01:19:12 - 00:01:23:08So, Christine, you just reviewed 2022 and kind of talked
00:01:23:08 - 00:01:26:01about 2023, the year ahead for employers.
00:01:26:08 - 00:01:29:11So can you kind of summarize some of your key points that you talked about?
00:01:30:09 - 00:01:31:12Sure.
00:01:31:19 - 00:01:33:02I talked a long time.
00:01:33:02 - 00:01:34:15So this is going to be a big summary.
00:01:35:16 - 00:01:37:14I always like to start on the federal level.
00:01:37:14 - 00:01:41:06So if anybody saw the State of the Union address,
00:01:41:17 - 00:01:44:15it was very heavy emphasis on employment.
00:01:44:15 - 00:01:48:09And President Biden's push to really make changes,
00:01:48:09 - 00:01:51:15both on executive level at a regulatory level.
00:01:51:15 - 00:01:54:08So what does that mean for employers for 2023?
00:01:54:15 - 00:01:57:04Forecasting it, you're looking at agencies
00:01:57:10 - 00:02:02:16passing a lot of guidance, a lot of rules and doing a lot of enforcement.
00:02:02:16 - 00:02:08:00And that's anything from the EEOC to the Department of Labor on union issues
00:02:08:21 - 00:02:11:23to wage and hour enforcement.
00:02:11:23 - 00:02:13:22You're also going to see
00:02:13:22 - 00:02:17:08and what we've seen so far in January was the FTC.
00:02:17:08 - 00:02:19:18So Federal Trade Commission, why am I talking about it?
00:02:19:18 - 00:02:24:12It's because they issued a proposed rule related to non-compete,
00:02:25:05 - 00:02:29:21which really is a broad reaching proposal that covers all restricted covenant
00:02:29:21 - 00:02:34:18agreements and is highly restrictive and preamps says it's written right now.
00:02:35:00 - 00:02:36:17Any state law that's inconsistent.
00:02:36:17 - 00:02:38:11So that's a big game changer.
00:02:39:10 - 00:02:41:11Don't expect it to pass as it is.
00:02:41:11 - 00:02:42:23There's going to be a lot more dialog.
00:02:42:23 - 00:02:46:22In fact, this afternoon, they're actually having an open forum to discuss it.
00:02:47:06 - 00:02:48:23So that's a big topic.
00:02:48:23 - 00:02:53:04We're also looking at some of those hot issues as it relates to enforcement
00:02:53:04 - 00:02:54:06at the agency level.
00:02:54:06 - 00:02:59:01So think about A.I., artificial intelligence and hiring and recruiting.
00:02:59:06 - 00:03:01:17What does that mean in terms of enforcement?
00:03:01:21 - 00:03:07:03We know in the draft enforcement report right now, for the next five years,
00:03:07:03 - 00:03:10:02there's going to be a heavy emphasis by the EEOC on that issue.
00:03:10:20 - 00:03:12:21And by the way, you know,
00:03:13:04 - 00:03:16:21saying that the algorithm is at fault is no defense for employers.
00:03:16:21 - 00:03:18:19And that's very clear.
00:03:18:19 - 00:03:22:21In the enforcement plan, as it reads right now, we're also looking at pay
00:03:22:22 - 00:03:27:03transparency issues as it relates to those state laws.
00:03:27:03 - 00:03:31:17So there's been a lot of state movement, family medical leave, paid leave expense
00:03:31:17 - 00:03:35:16reimbursement, which we've never seen on the books come to fruition.
00:03:36:00 - 00:03:38:15But in addition to that is pay transparency.
00:03:38:15 - 00:03:41:03How do your job post be transparent?
00:03:41:03 - 00:03:42:14Should you have a policy in place?
00:03:42:14 - 00:03:44:16What should that look like
00:03:44:16 - 00:03:48:05and how do you open up a conversation or respond to a conversation
00:03:48:05 - 00:03:51:18from an applicant that wants to talk about pay, something
00:03:51:18 - 00:03:55:12that historically has been very taboo and uncomfortable for employers?
00:03:56:07 - 00:04:00:03The final, I think emphasis is going to be on mental health
00:04:00:20 - 00:04:03:07and with all of the crises
00:04:03:07 - 00:04:06:10that we see out there in the U.S.
00:04:06:10 - 00:04:09:20right now, both in employers, places of business
00:04:10:12 - 00:04:13:18as well as our schools, it is at the forefront of everybody.
00:04:13:18 - 00:04:19:02And I think that one of the best things employers can target for 2023 is educating
00:04:19:07 - 00:04:22:15those individuals that work with employees,
00:04:23:06 - 00:04:25:15reminding them they need to take care of themselves,
00:04:25:19 - 00:04:30:13but also giving them the power and knowledge of power to identify
00:04:30:15 - 00:04:33:06risks in the workplace as it relates to mental health.
00:04:33:22 - 00:04:35:20Add some great advice, Christine, thank you.
00:04:35:20 - 00:04:39:15And you had a lot of important and essential updates that you gave us today.
00:04:39:15 - 00:04:41:16So thank you for summarizing those.
00:04:41:16 - 00:04:45:06But just as we wrap up here, do you have any other advice or insight
00:04:45:06 - 00:04:48:13you can give and kind of wrap up to employers today?
00:04:50:06 - 00:04:51:07I think that
00:04:51:07 - 00:04:56:07the biggest takeaway that I would look at for this coming
00:04:56:07 - 00:05:00:08year is to realize that those that deal with humans every day
00:05:01:13 - 00:05:04:01are tired and they need support.
00:05:04:01 - 00:05:08:11So whatever you can do to invest in your people, remember
00:05:08:11 - 00:05:12:06those that are at the highest level is making those really tough decisions.
00:05:12:15 - 00:05:15:04Need your support, whatever that may look like for you.
00:05:15:11 - 00:05:18:02Okay. Well, thank you, Christine, for joining us today.
00:05:18:02 - 00:05:19:09We appreciate it. Welcome.
00:05:19:09 - 00:05:20:07Thank you.
00:05:20:07 - 00:05:21:10Hello, everybody.
00:05:21:10 - 00:05:25:09I'm here with Joel Aziere, He's the president at Buelow Vetter.
00:05:25:09 - 00:05:29:10And Joel is a top rated attorney here in the Waukesha, Wisconsin, area,
00:05:29:17 - 00:05:32:16providing legal representation in the Wisconsin area
00:05:32:16 - 00:05:34:13for a variety of different issues.
00:05:34:13 - 00:05:37:03So thanks for joining us today, Joel.
00:05:37:03 - 00:05:42:01I want to ask you about your talk that you just had on risky labor practices.
00:05:42:12 - 00:05:45:07So with President Biden's endorsement,
00:05:45:08 - 00:05:49:14he says that I intend to be the most pro-union president
00:05:49:14 - 00:05:53:09leading the most pro-union administration in American history.
00:05:53:21 - 00:05:56:19So union efforts are definitely increasing.
00:05:57:02 - 00:06:00:22Can you give any advice for organizations on how to really prepare for this?
00:06:01:09 - 00:06:04:05I think there's a couple of things that organizations need to do.
00:06:04:05 - 00:06:07:14First and foremost, you need to remember that the National Labor
00:06:07:14 - 00:06:11:10Relations Act doesn't just pertain to union organizing.
00:06:11:17 - 00:06:15:23It also has to do with rules and policies that a company may have
00:06:16:06 - 00:06:18:01that could be seen by the board
00:06:18:01 - 00:06:21:17as having a chilling effect on employees ability to organize.
00:06:22:01 - 00:06:24:22So the first thing to do is even if you don't suspect
00:06:24:22 - 00:06:28:01that there could be any union organizing is look at your policies,
00:06:28:08 - 00:06:33:04look at your social media policies, look at your communication policies.
00:06:33:04 - 00:06:36:22All of those policies that could touch on how employees
00:06:36:22 - 00:06:39:04talk to one another and check those.
00:06:39:04 - 00:06:42:05Second of all, employees employers excuse me,
00:06:42:05 - 00:06:45:20need to be very, very diligent in watching their workforce.
00:06:46:01 - 00:06:48:06They need to look for changes.
00:06:48:06 - 00:06:52:04Anything that is a dramatic change from what the employees were doing
00:06:52:04 - 00:06:55:21before is an indication that they might be looking to unionize.
00:06:56:11 - 00:07:00:11The other piece that an employer needs to recognize is forming
00:07:00:11 - 00:07:04:08a union doesn't mean that the employees dislike the employer.
00:07:04:08 - 00:07:05:11I hear that a lot.
00:07:05:11 - 00:07:09:17What did we do wrong that got them to want to use or to form a union?
00:07:09:17 - 00:07:11:20That's not the right way to look at it.
00:07:11:20 - 00:07:14:17But it is good to do a self-reflection and say,
00:07:14:17 - 00:07:18:18Are there things that we can do to better communicate with our employees?
00:07:19:00 - 00:07:22:20Because obviously they feel they're not getting that direct communication.
00:07:23:03 - 00:07:26:15They want to bring in a third party to be the intermediary,
00:07:26:15 - 00:07:28:00and that's never a good idea.
00:07:28:00 - 00:07:32:21So look at what you are doing to try and facilitate clear communications.
00:07:33:14 - 00:07:36:18So you also talked about unfair labor practices,
00:07:36:18 - 00:07:39:10and I know you highlighted some great examples.
00:07:39:16 - 00:07:42:08Can you talk about the one with the vending machines?
00:07:42:08 - 00:07:44:13There was a recent case that you just worked on,
00:07:45:02 - 00:07:47:07so can you talk about some of the key points there?
00:07:47:22 - 00:07:50:14So the key to remember is, first of all, an unfair
00:07:50:14 - 00:07:54:15labor practice can be filed by anyone, not just somebody who has a union.
00:07:54:23 - 00:07:59:06And it has to do with a change in terms and conditions of employment.
00:07:59:10 - 00:08:02:21And whether you did something that you were not permitted to do.
00:08:03:01 - 00:08:04:02Now, the example
00:08:04:02 - 00:08:08:02that I use is an extreme example, and I can't see this happening again,
00:08:08:05 - 00:08:11:10but it's to illustrate what how far down
00:08:11:11 - 00:08:14:07the NLRB will look at four turns and conditions of employment.
00:08:14:14 - 00:08:17:18There was a production facility that had to break rooms.
00:08:17:18 - 00:08:19:14Both of them had vending machines.
00:08:19:14 - 00:08:22:04One was a newer breakroom, one was an older breakroom.
00:08:22:09 - 00:08:25:10And what the company did was they swapped the vending machines.
00:08:25:10 - 00:08:26:06That's all they did.
00:08:26:06 - 00:08:29:11The newer vending machine was swapped into the newer breakroom
00:08:29:18 - 00:08:30:22and they got an unfair
00:08:30:22 - 00:08:34:06labor practice charge and they couldn't figure out why what they had done wrong.
00:08:34:17 - 00:08:37:04The look, the vending machines, everything looked the same.
00:08:37:04 - 00:08:40:17One was a little bit older, but what they came down to is one of the
00:08:40:17 - 00:08:44:08vending machines had clean m&m's and the other one had m&m's with peanuts.
00:08:44:18 - 00:08:48:14And that in and of itself was enough for for these employees
00:08:48:14 - 00:08:51:19to say it was a change in terms and conditions of employment.
00:08:52:01 - 00:08:53:11Now, of course, we settled it.
00:08:53:11 - 00:08:56:13We resolve the matter very clearly, but it is an example
00:08:56:13 - 00:08:59:23of how far down you can go in making that determination.
00:09:00:00 - 00:09:01:02Oh, absolutely.
00:09:01:02 - 00:09:04:14And just as we wrap up here, do you have any other lasting advice
00:09:04:14 - 00:09:08:19or tips for employers out there on just the changing economy right now?
00:09:09:20 - 00:09:12:22You have to make sure that you are connecting with your employees.
00:09:12:22 - 00:09:16:04The number one reason that employees want to form a union
00:09:16:04 - 00:09:18:22is because they feel they are not being heard.
00:09:19:04 - 00:09:23:06That does not mean you have to give in to everything that an employee wants,
00:09:23:11 - 00:09:26:12but you do need to make sure that you are communicating to them
00:09:26:12 - 00:09:28:10that you are available to talk to them.
00:09:28:10 - 00:09:29:13You will listen to them
00:09:29:13 - 00:09:32:17and you will take their thoughts and ideas under consideration.
00:09:32:17 - 00:09:33:21That's some good advice.
00:09:33:21 - 00:09:34:22Good to end with.
00:09:34:22 - 00:09:36:15So thank you Joel for joining us today.
00:09:36:15 - 00:09:39:03We appreciate it. Thank you.
00:09:39:03 - 00:09:40:05Hello, everybody.
00:09:40:05 - 00:09:44:13I'm here with Scott LeBlanc, a labor and employee employment law attorney
00:09:44:13 - 00:09:47:19at Husch Blackwell, who helps clients really navigate
00:09:47:19 - 00:09:52:05the complexities of employment privacy in health care regulation.
00:09:52:05 - 00:09:56:00So, Scott, you just talked about reductions and workforce layoffs.
00:09:56:06 - 00:10:00:12Could you give us some highlights or just key tips for our listeners today?
00:10:00:23 - 00:10:03:14Yeah, Well, one of the things I talked about sort of at the end of my
00:10:03:14 - 00:10:07:07presentation is alternatives, layoffs, right?
00:10:07:08 - 00:10:08:00I think
00:10:09:00 - 00:10:10:23layoffs should always be the last resort.
00:10:10:23 - 00:10:13:14So if you're if you need to reduce your costs,
00:10:14:15 - 00:10:16:13what can you do short of layoffs that are.
00:10:16:13 - 00:10:16:21Okay.
00:10:16:21 - 00:10:19:14So we talked about wage reductions, Right.
00:10:19:14 - 00:10:23:09Which you're just, you know, temporarily or permanently reducing salaries
00:10:23:09 - 00:10:26:00or employ hourly compensation.
00:10:26:10 - 00:10:28:12You can do things like furloughs, which are
00:10:29:13 - 00:10:31:02require leaves of absence.
00:10:31:02 - 00:10:33:20So someone's going to take a required unpaid leave of absence
00:10:33:20 - 00:10:36:07for a certain period of time that's going to save you some money.
00:10:36:07 - 00:10:39:10So talking about, you know, if you and as an organization
00:10:39:10 - 00:10:41:03based on what you need to do
00:10:41:03 - 00:10:43:22there are other ways other than just laying off employees to do that.
00:10:43:22 - 00:10:44:13And there are
00:10:44:13 - 00:10:46:22there are things that you need to think about from a legal standpoint,
00:10:47:12 - 00:10:48:15but maybe thinking about those
00:10:48:15 - 00:10:51:20first before you dip all the way into to having to do layoffs.
00:10:52:09 - 00:10:54:18I know it's something that's on top of employers
00:10:54:18 - 00:10:56:20minds right now, especially with the start of the year.
00:10:57:03 - 00:11:00:14So can you just and end us with any other good advice you have
00:11:00:14 - 00:11:04:06or any tips for employers out there who may be struggling with ideas?
00:11:05:03 - 00:11:08:08Yeah, I think planning and documentation is always important.
00:11:08:08 - 00:11:10:01I mean, that's something I always hammer home,
00:11:10:01 - 00:11:11:22whether we're talking about layoffs or anything else
00:11:11:22 - 00:11:15:05from an employment law standpoint is just documenting your process.
00:11:15:05 - 00:11:18:12So if you're thinking about doing layoffs and you know,
00:11:19:03 - 00:11:22:02you really it's really helpful for a lot of different reasons,
00:11:22:02 - 00:11:23:12whether it's putting together
00:11:23:12 - 00:11:26:18a severance agreement for employees or making sure that you're not
00:11:27:07 - 00:11:31:09selecting employees based on discriminatory reasons.
00:11:31:09 - 00:11:33:20How how did you come to that process?
00:11:33:20 - 00:11:35:07Who made the decisions?
00:11:35:07 - 00:11:39:05How did you make the decision of how many employees that you need to get rid of?
00:11:39:14 - 00:11:43:15What are the categories are you using and who is coming up with the data there
00:11:44:03 - 00:11:47:12and just really documenting a process that's really going
00:11:47:12 - 00:11:48:05to help you in the end.
00:11:48:05 - 00:11:50:14It's not just going to make things easier
00:11:50:14 - 00:11:52:02because you're going to be more organized,
00:11:52:02 - 00:11:54:16but it's also going to help insulate you from legal liability.
00:11:55:09 - 00:11:57:23Well, thank you for joining us and thank you for the advice.
00:11:57:23 - 00:12:00:02We appreciate it. Glad to be here.
00:12:00:02 - 00:12:01:07Hello, everybody.
00:12:01:07 - 00:12:06:11I'm here with Craig Papka & Audrey Merkel from von Briesen & Roper.
00:12:06:21 - 00:12:11:03Craig is a shareholder in the labor and employment law section and counsels
00:12:11:03 - 00:12:14:03clients about a wide variety of matters
00:12:14:11 - 00:12:17:07with a view to preventing costly litigation.
00:12:17:13 - 00:12:21:02Audrey is a member of the Labor and Employment Section and focuses
00:12:21:02 - 00:12:25:01her practice on representing businesses, government in schools,
00:12:25:13 - 00:12:28:01with employment in covid related issues.
00:12:28:12 - 00:12:32:01So Craig, you discuss remote work and that it's really here to stay.
00:12:32:13 - 00:12:35:22However, professionals have to navigate the cultural
00:12:35:22 - 00:12:40:02and legal issues associated with employees working remotely.
00:12:40:02 - 00:12:42:02So can you highlight some of the key points
00:12:42:02 - 00:12:45:00you were talking about in your presentation today on that?
00:12:46:13 - 00:12:47:03Yes, certainly.
00:12:47:03 - 00:12:48:05Thank you.
00:12:48:13 - 00:12:51:15I guess the most important thing is really to stay consistent.
00:12:52:11 - 00:12:55:20It's really critical that HR Professionals have set guidelines
00:12:55:20 - 00:12:57:02and they stick to them really
00:12:57:02 - 00:13:00:04in all aspects, especially with regard to remote workers
00:13:00:20 - 00:13:01:23to avoid putting yourself
00:13:01:23 - 00:13:05:00in a potential discriminate, discriminatory type situation.
00:13:06:10 - 00:13:11:07And then in terms of some best practices, we recommend defining eligibility.
00:13:11:07 - 00:13:17:04So exactly which employees can be working from home and also consistently abiding
00:13:17:04 - 00:13:22:05by any seen criteria that the company has in respect to working from home.
00:13:22:11 - 00:13:24:10Also require written requests
00:13:24:10 - 00:13:27:22for work from home to be submitted to both management HR
00:13:28:09 - 00:13:32:05And also train managers on handling work from home requests perfect.
00:13:32:09 - 00:13:35:23Thank you guys for joining us today and thank you for your great presentation
00:13:35:23 - 00:13:36:22and the advice.
00:13:36:22 - 00:13:39:08So look forward to talking to you.
00:13:39:17 - 00:13:40:22Hello everybody.
00:13:40:22 - 00:13:45:10I'm here with Scott Reigle from Meissner Tierney, he represents clients
00:13:45:10 - 00:13:49:00in a variety of different civil litigation matters in Wisconsin,
00:13:49:00 - 00:13:52:09California and other jurisdictions around the country.
00:13:52:19 - 00:13:54:17So, Scott, I know you just talked about
00:13:54:17 - 00:13:58:09the digital world today in different data breaches and stuff like that.
00:13:58:09 - 00:14:03:15And we have access nowadays more than any time in history on data.
00:14:03:23 - 00:14:07:01So could you just summarize how a business
00:14:07:01 - 00:14:11:04can really reduce its vulnerability to protect its data nowadays?
00:14:11:06 - 00:14:13:17Well, thank you, Sophia, and thank you, Mary, for having me.
00:14:14:03 - 00:14:16:22This is a great event and I really appreciate the opportunity to talk
00:14:18:15 - 00:14:19:10as far as
00:14:19:10 - 00:14:22:03what a company can do to protect itself.
00:14:22:13 - 00:14:25:05I look at that in two different ways.
00:14:25:05 - 00:14:28:16This kind of comes from my litigation background.
00:14:28:16 - 00:14:32:17How do we protect ourselves proactively and reactively and all That's about,
00:14:34:04 - 00:14:36:14first of all, limiting the opportunity
00:14:36:14 - 00:14:38:05for somebody to attack you in the first place.
00:14:38:05 - 00:14:41:13But if they do to to limit
00:14:41:21 - 00:14:44:16would mean what we think of in the legal world is exposure.
00:14:44:16 - 00:14:47:03So what liability you might face.
00:14:47:06 - 00:14:51:00So on the proactivity point, typically we're going to advise
00:14:51:00 - 00:14:53:06our clients, you need to have policies and procedures.
00:14:53:06 - 00:14:57:15You need to stay up to date with software updates and security mechanisms.
00:14:58:08 - 00:15:01:06You need to and then also you need to have plans in place for
00:15:01:15 - 00:15:06:01if the unthinkable does happen when it happens.
00:15:06:03 - 00:15:06:15Excuse me,
00:15:06:15 - 00:15:09:23if it happens, we're all we're always hoping, of course, that it doesn't.
00:15:10:09 - 00:15:12:10But if it does happen to you,
00:15:12:19 - 00:15:16:04the biggest thing to do is act quickly and you want to act decisively.
00:15:16:04 - 00:15:18:07So you want to make sure that you're protecting
00:15:19:13 - 00:15:22:20the systems while an attack is going on or shortly thereafter.
00:15:22:22 - 00:15:26:21B) you're getting your arms around what happened, investigation is a key.
00:15:27:23 - 00:15:30:02C) that you
00:15:30:02 - 00:15:33:05then take the proper remedial actions to get involved.
00:15:33:05 - 00:15:35:08And and this is a big one.
00:15:35:08 - 00:15:38:11D) You've got to be transparent throughout the process.
00:15:38:11 - 00:15:40:04So many companies that
00:15:40:04 - 00:15:43:03get into big trouble in these situations get into trouble because
00:15:44:00 - 00:15:46:18for lack of a better term, it's either shame or greed.
00:15:47:00 - 00:15:49:01They're either ashamed that this happened to them
00:15:49:13 - 00:15:52:21or they don't want to lose sales, they don't want to lose.
00:15:52:21 - 00:15:55:23Customers eventually will get out.
00:15:55:23 - 00:16:00:23And they're they're both common law and statutory liabilities that can happen
00:16:01:12 - 00:16:05:22that can accrue to a company if they don't come clean on these types of things.
00:16:05:22 - 00:16:07:21So we always counsel it's best
00:16:07:21 - 00:16:12:01to just be forthright and upfront with these types of things.
00:16:12:02 - 00:16:15:19Now, of course, within all the things we're talking about, I just gave an hour
00:16:15:19 - 00:16:20:11long speech on it, so I can't cover it all here, but there's a lot of nuance.
00:16:20:11 - 00:16:22:13But that's the CliffsNotes. Yeah.
00:16:22:21 - 00:16:26:18And you did give a lot of good information in the past hour, like you said.
00:16:26:18 - 00:16:30:13But, is there any lasting advice that you want to give our listeners today
00:16:30:13 - 00:16:34:00or any other security advice you want to give them before we wrap up?
00:16:35:03 - 00:16:37:02Change your passwords early and often.
00:16:37:02 - 00:16:40:12That's that's the best piece of advice I can give in a short amount of time.
00:16:40:12 - 00:16:41:16And I know we don't have long,
00:16:41:16 - 00:16:44:13but I just want to thank you guys again for for having us.
00:16:44:13 - 00:16:46:21And and this has been a great event.
00:16:46:21 - 00:16:48:04Thank you, Scott.
00:16:48:04 - 00:16:52:05I want to thank each of the seven speakers that I got a chance to chat with today
00:16:52:05 - 00:16:55:09in sharing their knowledge and expertise on the employment law.
00:16:55:18 - 00:16:59:19We have linked the resources from this event and each of the speakers
00:16:59:19 - 00:17:04:00biographies in the show notes, so make sure to reference those as needed
00:17:04:11 - 00:17:07:18and I encourage you to join MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:17:07:18 - 00:17:10:22We also have resources in the show notes for that as well.
00:17:11:12 - 00:17:14:01Otherwise, thank you for coming along with me today,
00:17:14:02 - 00:17:16:22and we will see you next week.
00:17:16:22 - 00:17:19:11That wraps up our content for this episode.
00:17:19:12 - 00:17:22:16Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect
00:17:22:16 - 00:17:24:07for more podcast updates,
00:17:24:07 - 00:17:28:03check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:17:28:03 - 00:17:33:02And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive, so you don't miss out.
00:17:33:02 - 00:17:34:04Thanks for tuning in
00:17:34:04 - 00:17:37:16and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

Talent Report: Build Your Talent Supply Chain

Description: Jim Morgan, Vice President of Workforce Strategies covers the February edition of MRA’s Talent Report. If you aren’t familiar with the monthly Talent Report, Jim Morgan gives an up-to-the-minute review of what is going on in the world of business with an emphasis on talent, which is based on input from CEOs, CFOs, and HR leaders from MRA’s 3,000+ member companies, 1,000 roundtable participants, and subject matter experts!
Key Takeaways:
To attract talent, more companies are investing in producing and publicizing videos on their websites to have in their career section
As employers develop new and emerging leaders, they are focusing on emotional intelligence, the ability to set clear expectations, assigning responsibility, supervisory skills, and the ability to execute effective performance reviews.
HR Departments are using more metrics to demonstrate the time, effort and cost that go into hiring a new employee. 
Resources:
Talent Report + Webinar Series  
Talent Report + February 2023 
MRA Membership 
About MRA 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jim Morgan 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 

Hot on the Hotline: FMLA

Description: FMLA is a hot topic for every organization. Amy Weyker, MRA HR Advisor, is here as your FMLA expert to make sure you know the regulations, proper notification, and frequently asked questions related to Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA).
Key Takeaways:
Federal FMLA provides certain employees with up to 12 weeks of unpaid, job-protected leave per year.
FMLA applies to all public agencies, all public and private elementary and secondary schools, and companies with 50 or more employees.
Employees are eligible for leave if they have worked for their employer at least 12 months, at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles.
Resources:
MRA's 24/7 HR Hotline 
FMLA Toolkit 
FMLA Made Simple - Training 
Supervisor and the Law - Training 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Amy Weyker 
Guest LinkedIn Bio - Amy Weyker 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 

Romance in the Workplace: Should You Fall in Love at Work?

Description: Because we spend so much time at work, it is not surprising that we meet romantic partners, and sometimes future spouses, at the office. MRA's Maureen Siwula, HR Advisor, is here to clear up your curiousity and be transparent on everything romantic in the workplace. 
Key Takeaways:
In the top 5 places where you meet your significant other: Work! 
Every organization, no matter what their purpose is, should have a conflict of interest or business ethics or a relationship policy with guidelines.
Tip for employers: Teach, mentor, guide by example, and have solid, clear policies and education for your employees. Don’t make assumptions that they know and understand. 
Tip for employees: Keep yourself very professional, and keep yourself engaged in the work. And if you do meet somebody, do it the right way according to the policies and procedures
Resources:
Romance in the Workplace Guide
Workplace Harassment Toolkit
Preventing Workplace Violence Toolkit
MRA's 24/7 HR Hotline 
 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Maureen Siwula 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Maureen Siwula 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:23:14 - 00:00:43:18
Sophie Boler
Hello everybody. Thanks for taking the time to spend part of your day with us here today. I’m excited to introduce our guests and our topic for today. And it’s February, the month of love, so you know what that means. We’re going to be talking about romance in the workplace with Maureen’s Siwula. She’s our HR
 
00:00:43:19 - 00:01:10:20
Sophie Boler
advisor here at MRA. But part of her role is working on our 27/7 HR Hotline. So Maureen has over 40 years of HR experience and has worked in both nonprofit and profit positions in health care, education, service, philanthropy, and manufacturing. So she comes with a ton of HR knowledge and hopefully some workplace romance knowledge too. So I’m excited to talk to you today, Maureen.
 
00:01:10:20 - 00:01:22:01
Sophie Boler
We can dive into the first question.
 
Maureen Siwula
Sure, Sophie.
 
Sophie Boler
So I’ve heard that work is quite a popular place to find your significant other. Is this true? I’m curious what you’re hearing.
 
00:01:22:14 - 00:01:44:07
Maureen Siwula
That’s not only what I hear and see in the workplace, Sophie, but it’s also researched. If you institute a study of ways people meet each other, the most popular ways that people see their partners, and in the top five is the workplace. So it’s something that’s kept me pretty busy in my career is dealing with workplace relationships.
 
00:01:44:08 - 00:01:52:23
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. So I guess I’m curious to know what are some of the challenges of a romantic relationship in the workplace?
 
00:01:53:09 - 00:02:15:08
Maureen Siwula
The challenges are many. The romance is not the challenge because who doesn’t love a romance story, right? As long as everything works out well. It’s when things go awry, when things get troublesome, when people don’t follow policies or rules, or you hear it through the grapevine or rumor mill, or you see something that’s inappropriate—that’s where things get very challenging.
 
00:02:15:18 - 00:02:22:12
Maureen Siwula
And employers and coworkers can become rather involved in situations that they really don’t need to be involved in.
 
00:02:23:01 - 00:02:34:18
Sophie Boler
Just going off of what you just said there, should every business have a policy on workplace romance, or can you really not make any strict rules and relationships?
 
00:02:35:00 - 00:03:04:20
Maureen Siwula
Based on the kind of company you are, you can have strict or less strict rules, but I do think every business, every organization, no matter what your purpose is, should have a conflict of interest or a business ethics or a relationship policy with guidelines. You don’t have to be as strict as absolutely no dating whatsoever because that might be just really very limiting for people and you might lose people because of that, but you should have parameters around the how to’s and the why to’s
 
00:03:05:05 - 00:03:23:09
Maureen Siwula
so there isn’t a perception of a conflict. You can understand in the supervisor/employee relationship, if somebody has more power over you in a role and it begins to become a relationship that might look like favoritism or it might be perceived as harassment. So this is where it gets challenging.
 
00:03:23:22 - 00:03:34:15
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. And just talking about your personal experience, have you ever had to deal with a workplace romance as a manager in your career or heard any calls on the hotline?
 
00:03:35:01 - 00:03:55:21
Maureen Siwula
Well, absolutely. Why do we call it the “hotline”? Because we get a lot of information that is from employers that they’re dealing with that very challenging. Absolutely. In my 40 years, I’ve seen everything from things go into sexual harassment, discrimination and seeing people happily ever after marry in the workplace. And we like that last story.
 
Sophie Boler
Oh, absolutely.
 
00:03:55:21 - 00:04:30:17
Maureen Siwula
But when employers call us, or when I’ve been a leader in an organization or challenged, it generally is because somebody is not telling the truth, not being transparent, not following the policy. Example would be—and this really did happen—is the coworkers of an employee started a rumor rising that, I’ll call her “Sally,” was dating “Bob,” and they saw them in the tavern after work and then they saw them at work in the car and people were talking and gossiping.
 
00:04:31:04 - 00:04:56:08
Maureen Siwula
And there was a policy about conflicts of interests. And Bob was Sally’s supervisor, so there definitely was a conflict. Then all of a sudden, Sally’s getting the preferred shifts and she’s getting the preferred projects. So what would have been best in that situation is for Bob or Sally to work within management or the human resource department, follow the policy which says you need to disclose any conflicts of interest.
 
00:04:56:21 - 00:05:07:04
Maureen Siwula
And what should have happened in that case is that if they truly wanted to have this relationship that was healthy and good, Sally would have been transferred to a different department.
 
00:05:07:12 - 00:05:20:18
Sophie Boler
For sure. And kind of going along with that, let’s say you do have two employees who just began a romantic relationship at work. What are their next steps, or do they go right to HR and tell them? Do they tell their teams about it? What’s your advice?
 
00:05:21:06 - 00:05:45:07
Maureen Siwula
Well, my advice is one thing. The practicality of what’s really happens sometimes is another. But the best thing to do always is think with intention about this relationship before you engage in it, if you can. You have a job first. You took this job first; meeting somebody at work came second. What’s the most important thing is for you to continue your job in a healthy way.
 
00:05:45:14 - 00:06:10:19
Maureen Siwula
So understand the policies, understand the rules, and be in this relationship in an honest way to say we can’t go any further with this because the policy says that we have to disclose this to HR. So we need to do that. I can do it alone. You can do it alone. But that’s, really need to do that if we’re going to be visible with our relationship, and then see what advice is given to you.
 
00:06:11:05 - 00:06:42:12
Maureen Siwula
If it’s a consensual, healthy relationship, it doesn’t conflict with anything in the business ethics, you’re you’re good to go ahead. But if there is a conflict, that power struggle once again, harassment or discrimination, or let’s say you meet a vendor that comes in and replaces cartridges in the printer or something and you, this is another person. Well, that’s also a conflict because the business has a relationship with that vendor for money and you don’t want to perceive as being involved in that situation.
 
00:06:42:20 - 00:06:48:02
Maureen Siwula
So it’s not just your coworker that this stuff can happen, but it can be people who enter into the business.
 
00:06:48:10 - 00:06:53:21
Sophie Boler
So would you recommend that couple telling their team?
 
00:06:54:20 - 00:07:21:10
Maureen Siwula
No. I have, recommend they tell HR or their manager first. Keep it at a high level and I would keep it relatively professional and private until you do get some advisement. Now, if your company doesn’t have a policy, let’s say you’re pretty small, right? Think about the consequences. Make a policy for yourself. Do you want to be seen as a professional individual contributing to work, or do you want to be seen as that person who dates at work?
 
00:07:21:10 - 00:07:35:19
Maureen Siwula
You want to be seen as a professional. And so even in the absence of policy, check yourself. You know, be sure that you want this relationship, but you also want to keep your job and be very healthy and professional about it.
 
00:07:36:10 - 00:07:53:01
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. So some research that I’ve seen have shown that office romances are actually frowned upon. So what really should HR be cautious of when one partner’s in a higher position at the company, kind of like you mentioned—Sally and Bob.
 
00:07:53:01 - 00:08:20:06
Maureen Siwula
Right. Right. Yeah, some companies do frown upon it and maybe even have a zero-fraternization policy that says there’s no dating in the workplace here. And that could be in a situation that is a very confidential product line or something. And employers have the right to make strict policies if it makes sense. You know, you want to be sensible about these things. But most of them have parameters and not the strict policy.
 
00:08:20:06 - 00:08:31:21
Maureen Siwula
There are some companies that absolutely, they’re too small and they just can’t tolerate what comes as a result of the drama of the workplace relationship. But the parameters are a better way to go.
 
00:08:32:13 - 00:08:40:08
Sophie Boler
And are there concerns on work performance when two people are in a relationship at work?
 
00:08:40:09 - 00:09:04:04
Maureen Siwula
Absolutely. If you get too distracted and you’re not contributing and not being that professional contributing individual, maybe you’re starting to show some public display of affection. Maybe, you know, there’s more times than not. And that’s a disciplinary measure whether it’s a good relationship or a bad relationship. If you’re spending too much time on break with one person, you need to be coached and counseled and redirected.
 
00:09:04:13 - 00:09:10:01
Maureen Siwula
But check yourself—what are you doing to make yourself look good for your employer?
 
00:09:10:01 - 00:09:17:00
Sophie Boler
So how things really change in the workplace when it comes to workplace romance? How has it all evolved?
 
00:09:18:08 - 00:09:51:17
Maureen Siwula
It has evolved immensely, like many things in the workplace have, you know. Sophie, when I started working, I didn’t really even have a computer, so and now I have, you know, many of them. So evolution in the workplace is everywhere, particularly on relationships and professionalism. The laws that have evolved around sexual harassment and the education we have had since the #MeToo movement and other things, discrimination makes us much more cautious and careful about how it is that we treat our workplace and our employees.
 
00:09:52:03 - 00:10:16:01
Maureen Siwula
So it starts with an employer. When you hire someone, you need to teach them the rules of the road and you need to set examples. So years and years ago there weren’t a lot of policies and procedures in place. And I don’t love the policy up for sake of policy, but we all need rules, don’t we? We all need some parameters and education, and it starts with the education at orientation.
 
00:10:16:01 - 00:10:37:11
Maureen Siwula
What kind of workplace culture are we? Okay, so I have read—I think it’s true—that at Google and Facebook they have a rule about dating. If you ask a person out once and they say, no, you can’t ask them again. So that’s very strict, right? But that’s what their rule is. Others just put it in the conflict of interest.
 
00:10:37:11 - 00:11:13:04
Maureen Siwula
Relationships need to be free of conflict, and then give some examples such as dating a supervisor, having illicit, not illegal but illicit affair, you know, having a unhealthy relationship. So the policies have evolved to support an employer, to teach their employees and hold them accountable to good behavior. So it’s through policy development, education, and accountability. So employers need not to be afraid or scared to call somebody into the office to coach them if things are not looking good or feeling good.
 
00:11:13:22 - 00:11:24:15
Maureen Siwula
I don’t know about you, Sophie, but if somebody was rumorizing about me that I was dating somebody at work and I truly was not, I would like to know that people are talking about that.
 
00:11:24:18 - 00:11:25:01
Sophie Boler
I would too.
 
00:11:25:01 - 00:11:39:13
Maureen Siwula
Yep. Exactly. And so when we say things that are not true, it hurts people very much so. And so see something, say something is what kind of our culture has become in the workplace, as well as in life.
 
00:11:39:22 - 00:11:50:07
Sophie Boler
So going along with that, you would recommend that an employer should be completely transparent on their workplace relationship policies right at the start?
 
00:11:50:13 - 00:12:10:12
Maureen Siwula
Right at the start. Just like when you get the handbook, and it says something like, you know, you can’t sleep on the job or you can’t steal from your employer, you can’t have an unprofessional, conflicted relationship within the workplace. Makes sense to me. I came here for a job, I didn’t come here for a spouse or partner, but that could be a bonus.
 
00:12:10:17 - 00:12:13:16
Maureen Siwula
Absolutely. If I’m doing it according to the rules.
 
00:12:14:08 - 00:12:21:22
Sophie Boler
So should that. should the couple have a plan in case it doesn’t work out? Or what happens when it doesn’t work out?
 
00:12:22:10 - 00:12:42:05
Maureen Siwula
Well, usually they don’t have a plan if it doesn’t work out. People want their relationships to work. But again, check yourself, be professional. What is going to happen if we don’t tell somebody? What is going to happen if all of a sudden we’re fighting at work and before we were dating? Plan B is always, always good to have, right?
 
00:12:42:13 - 00:13:02:11
Maureen Siwula
Plan A is it all works out, but Plan B, it all works out and we still can work together and be decent to each other. So yes, having a backup plan is the same as when your computer crashes. You want to have a backup for that as well. So if this romance crashes, we can survive it, right? Because we’re professional contributing employees.
 
00:13:02:21 - 00:13:33:18
Maureen Siwula
We can get through this. However, sometimes intervention needs to occur, and I’ve had interesting calls on the hotline once again about when a relationship goes bad. Example: factory, two coworkers that relationship not power driven, perfectly somewhat healthy right and they’re dating and it’s going along fine, it’s not bothering anybody at work. Well, Monday they come into work and apparently they had a terrible weekend.
 
00:13:34:02 - 00:13:49:15
Maureen Siwula
They got into a disagreement over the weekend and it continued in the workplace on Monday morning. They punched in next to each other. And before you know it, I’m getting a phone call on the hotline because he took his lunch box and hit her up inside the head. So that’s when it could get really bad.
 
00:13:50:06 - 00:14:08:11
Sophie Boler
Yeah, well, you mentioned healthy relationships at workplace, and that didn’t seem too healthy.
 
Maureen Siwula
It wasn’t.
 
Sophie Boler
What about when it’s not a healthy relationship, and when there may be affairs in the workplace that are seen or talked about—do you have anything to comment on that?
 
00:14:08:17 - 00:14:54:18
Maureen Siwula
Yes, unfortunately, those are really difficult, sensitive issues. And sometimes it starts with a shoulder to lean on with a coworker or your assistant. And maybe you’re talking about your marital difficulties and all of a sudden you’re in a relationship with this person. Those are not good situations for anyone. And so, once again, if it’s being brought forward not by you or the other employee, we’re going to get into the rumor mill and we’re going to have unnecessary drama, and so in that situation, it’s the manager’s job and the leader’s job to talk to those people about this cannot happen in the workplace.
 
00:14:55:06 - 00:15:18:00
Maureen Siwula
And many times I would refer the employee assistance program, which is a benefit that most employers have. If they don’t I strongly encourage it because they can seek counsel or help for the situation. The person who is having marital difficulties should be seeking a doctor’s advice or a therapist’s advice, not your coworker. It’s just not the right place or time for those things.
 
00:15:18:07 - 00:15:30:10
Maureen Siwula
So lots of coaching. Compassion is really important in those situations, but firmness too. I mean, if people don’t want to listen to you and don’t want to stop, the next action is discipline and maybe even separation.
 
00:15:30:13 - 00:15:33:12
Sophie Boler
Yeah, it’s a tough topic, but it’s real.
 
00:15:33:12 - 00:15:34:01
Maureen Siwula
Very real.
 
00:15:34:02 - 00:15:43:12
Sophie Boler
Yeah. So as we do wrap up today, do you have any last thoughts or pieces of advice you can share with our listeners?
 
00:15:43:12 - 00:16:07:20
Maureen Siwula
Advice number one for the employees: Keep yourself very professional, keep yourself engaged in the work. And if you do meet somebody, do it the right way according to the policies and procedures. Don’t cause drama for yourself or for your employer. It’s not necessary. You can have romance in the workplace, but not always and not under all conditions.
 
00:16:08:18 - 00:16:35:13
Maureen Siwula
And then for employers: Teach, mentor, guide by example, have solid, clear policies and education for your employees. Don’t make assumptions that they know and understand. Don’t make the assumption that every employee walks into your organization knowing your rules because your rules, look at Google. I would never think I’d have a rule like that in my workplace, but I understand and respect why they do that.
 
00:16:36:05 - 00:17:00:18
Maureen Siwula
I wouldn’t walk in there assuming that that’s what the rule is. We have to know and understand what our employers expect of us. And always deal with people, you know, in a compassionate, understanding way and fair and reasonable. I think the days of top-down punitive management don’t work, understanding people where they’re at and getting them to a place that they need to be.
 
00:17:01:06 - 00:17:11:23
Sophie Boler
Those are all great points. So I thank you for being on 30 minute THRIVE today and really sharing your knowledge, expertise, advice on romance in the workplace. Fun topic.
 
00:17:12:00 - 00:17:15:01
Maureen Siwula
It was! Thank you, Sophie, I enjoyed it.
 
00:17:15:10 - 00:17:38:05
Sophie Boler
But if you liked our chat or topic today, I encourage you to leave a comment or review. Share this episode and consider joining MRA if you aren’t a member already. We have all of the resources available in the show notes below for you, including Maureen’s email and LinkedIn profile. So if you’d like to chat with her today or connect with her, those are also available to you in the show notes.
 
00:17:38:16 - 00:17:42:21
Sophie Boler
Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and we will see you next week.
 
00:17:43:12 - 00:17:44:02
Maureen Siwula
Thank you.
 
00:17:44:10 - 00:18:06:15
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.’’’

Biggest Benefits of HR Business Partners

Description: As an HR professional, you have a lot of roles and responsibilities. You also have many daily activities that take valuable time away from focusing on the larger and more impactful strategic planning and HR work. Jillian Jordan, MRA HR Business Partner, is here to tell you the biggest benefits of HRBPs to your company.
Key Takeaways:
HRBPs, as it says in the title, really are designed to be a partner with the member organization
Some of the areas MRA’s HRBPs specialize in: Payroll, benefits, compliance, record keeping, employee relations, process improvement, project management, working on strategic initiatives, change management, handbooks, compensation, investigations, and more
HRBPs can help or provide guidance to make you feel more confident in times that you may be unsure, or overwhelmed, or you want to avoid feeling overwhelmed and plan for an HRBP to be there to support you through planned transitions, projects, whatever it may be.
Resources:
Learn more about MRA's HRBPs! 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jillian Jordan 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jillian Jordan 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:26:18 - 00:00:57:05
Sophie Boler
Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive. We're excited you're here with us and I'm excited to introduce our guest for today, Jillian Jordan. She's a human resource business partner at MRA and is about celebrate her one-year anniversary. So congratulations on that very much. But Jillian has had 17 years of leadership and HR experience under her belt, and I just want to mention some of the different areas and industries that you've worked in.
 
00:00:57:12 - 00:01:10:12
Sophie Boler
It's been agriculture, food manufacturing, aerospace engineering, logistics, construction, retail, auto sales and the service industry. So it seems like you've done just about anything and everything.
 
00:01:10:22 - 00:01:11:17
Jillian Jordan
A lot of different things.
 
00:01:12:20 - 00:01:32:23
Sophie Boler
But today I'm really interested in learning more about your current position as an HRBP or human resource business partner here at MRA. So I’ll just dive into that right away. So many companies are enhancing their HR department by hiring an HR business partner. What exactly is an HRBP?
 
00:01:34:10 - 00:02:04:14
Jillian Jordan
As simple definition of that would be just an HR business partner that comes in and partners with an organization to help them with their HR Business needs, for instance. It's pretty straightforward in the title, but if you want to expand that into what would like an MRA business partner, you’re really looking at a much broader range of solutions that we can provide because you've got not just that person that's coming in and helping with business solutions and HR
 
00:02:04:14 - 00:02:15:01
Jillian Jordan
Solutions, but you have the support of the 200 plus professionals that we have at MRA supporting. So I think that that's just such a cool part of what MRA does and can provide.
 
00:02:16:12 - 00:02:16:18
Sophie Boler
For.
 
00:02:17:03 - 00:02:18:09
Jillian Jordan
Our business partner.
 
00:02:18:11 - 00:02:23:18
Sophie Boler
For sure. So who does an HR business partner primarily work with?
 
00:02:25:08 - 00:02:51:12
Jillian Jordan
So I guess if your question is about like the size of the company,  really any size, you know, small, midsize, large, you're going to be looking at different solutions depending on the size and structure. If you're looking at if the question is implying like what kind of people do we work with, it could be HR Managers, it could be with the director level, could be management level, could be at the tactical administrative.
 
00:02:52:12 - 00:03:05:08
Jillian Jordan
You know, transactional level. So we really pride ourselves on being flexible to be able to work with any level of individual that's in the company and really any kind of size company.
 
00:03:05:08 - 00:03:13:15
Sophie Boler
Oh yeah, that's great to know that you have that flexibility of who you work with. Yes. So what does success really look like to an HRBP?
 
00:03:15:03 - 00:03:44:06
Jillian Jordan
I think that's such a good question to ask, because every company really is different. I think that success for us means the success of our member, and that's something that is something I really enjoy being able to go in and talk to our members, understand what is their mission, vision value, and really tailor what we provide to what their needs are, and asking that question, What does success look like for you?
 
00:03:44:06 - 00:04:00:23
Jillian Jordan
Is it three months thing? You know me out of here and you have this project done or is it the support for long term smaller amount of hours supporting that? So I think it really is something different for every company.
 
00:04:00:23 - 00:04:17:20
Sophie Boler
And I like how you worded that is like your success is the success of the company. Yeah. So you talked about also working with small companies, midsize companies and large companies. So how do you really determine how many HR HRBPs are needed for a member?
 
00:04:18:11 - 00:04:42:21
Jillian Jordan
What we do is utilize our member relations team along with the HR HRBP manager and we want to assess the business needs to find the right fit for the organization. So whether it's like culture, whether it's the specific skills that are needed for that project or as a project. But, I mean, it could be, it could be a number of things that we're doing.
 
00:04:43:06 - 00:05:01:15
Jillian Jordan
So I think we really work as a team to make sure that the right person is is out into the into the right place. So the HR Business partner also feels successful, right, that they are being able to successfully put in, you know, hey, this is my best work and I’m really feeling like I’m making an impact to this member.
 
00:05:01:23 - 00:05:20:05
Jillian Jordan
So I think that that's just a big part of that. And I know my manager does a really good job of recognizing the things that I like to do. And so I excel in it, making sure that I know the places I go are a good fit for my skill set and my personality and those kind of things, Definitely.
 
00:05:20:18 - 00:05:33:12
Sophie Boler
So we're really learning more about you and your specific responsibilities, but I'm also interested to know about the team of HRBPs you work with every day. So can you really describe the team you're on?
 
00:05:34:18 - 00:06:06:20
Jillian Jordan
Yes, I love talking about my team. Everyone is so friendly. I've really enjoyed I mean, you said I've been here almost a year now. I'm getting almost to a year. And I do feel like everyone has really welcomed me. I feel like everyone is really, really friendly. And when you think about, you know, when we meet regularly, I feel like we have such a diverse group of individuals who have experience from different backgrounds, different industries, and I just love learning from them.
 
00:06:07:08 - 00:06:32:17
Jillian Jordan
I don't feel like we have that like competitive nature. I don't think. I guess I just feel like everyone's so supportive of my success and invested in, you know, how are you doing? Like what classes are you taking? Oh, yeah, I took that OD last year. Last year? That was really good. Did you like it? You know, I think that people are just genuinely interested in your growth as a professional.
 
00:06:32:17 - 00:06:55:17
Jillian Jordan
The things that you're interested in here at MRA. So I feel just so fortunate to be able to have been surrounded by people who are just so, so friendly, so nice, and are there to learn from and grow from. We just don't have that, you know? It's just nice to know that you have people that have your back.
 
00:06:56:00 - 00:07:14:23
Jillian Jordan
You have people that, oh, I'm going to call this person because I know they're really good at this, or I'm going to call my BFF up and say, Hey, how did you do this? Or what would you suggest for that? There's no shame in not knowing. the answer, right? Is we're all just here to learn and grow from each other and to be better professionals.
 
00:07:15:10 - 00:07:18:07
Sophie Boler
That's great that everyone's truly a team player.
 
00:07:18:07 - 00:07:19:12
Jillian Jordan
Yeah, I do feel like that.
 
00:07:19:18 - 00:07:27:18
Sophie Boler
So just kind of diving deeper into the life of an HRBP What initiatives does a HR BP take on?
 
00:07:27:22 - 00:07:28:08
Jillian Jordan
Yeah, I.
 
00:07:28:08 - 00:07:28:23
Sophie Boler
Guess the list.
 
00:07:28:23 - 00:08:07:04
Jillian Jordan
Is busy. All of are, Yeah. So try not to fall asleep while I go through this. But I mean, it's really so many things. It could be like payroll benefits, compliance, recordkeeping, employee relations, process improvement, project management, working on strategic initiative, change management, some of our most frequently requested services, though I would say our working out handbooks, providing an extra set of hands-on reviewing job descriptions, compensation like the comp and class studies and performance management, assisting with HR
 
00:08:07:14 - 00:08:34:13
Jillian Jordan
Optimization and performing investigations, which I think is such a great service that we provide being able to take that third party perspective and really interview people and provide data and fast so that, you know, our members can look at that information and, you know, make good decisions about their, their practices for sure.
 
00:08:34:13 - 00:08:34:19
Sophie Boler
Yeah.
 
00:08:35:22 - 00:09:01:22
Jillian Jordan
So I think a part of that so those are kind of like a list of what we do. But essentially what we want to do is, you know, I’ve said this a little bit already, but we really want to get to know the business, right? So we want to understand what matters to you. We want to understand how can we really minimize the transactional tasks that we can focus on partnering with the business and and HR
 
00:09:01:22 - 00:09:14:12
Sophie Boler
Strategic needs. So you just mentioned transactional and strategic. Can you explain a little bit the difference between transactional versus more tactical and strategic? Yeah.
 
00:09:14:12 - 00:09:54:08
Jillian Jordan
So your transactional items are going to be those day-to-day task oriented, somewhat administrative tasks. And then when you look at the strategic initiatives, you're really taking your strategic plan and looking at what are all the tactical things you need to make that happen. And so when we say we're minimizing the transactional, it means we're taking a look at your process, seeing where you could be trimming it down so that you are spending less time and on those transactional items and that you are really focusing on your strategic needs.
 
00:09:54:08 - 00:10:15:05
Jillian Jordan
And I think that there's a lot of business partners HR professionals out there who are looking at, you know, how am I going to get to these strategic needs? And if I am so bogged down by administrative tasks and I would say, you know, in my many years of working in HR there’s never been a time where you may wish that we had more administrative tasks to do.
 
00:10:15:05 - 00:10:27:05
Jillian Jordan
And, you know, you're always thinking about how can I further the department, how can I really get to these other very strategic and tactical things without spending so much time on the transactional?
 
00:10:28:09 - 00:10:36:04
Sophie Boler
So how do an HRBPs responsibilities really differ from other HR roles in an organization.
 
00:10:36:09 - 00:11:09:12
Jillian Jordan
I'm going to twist your question a little bit and just kind of talk about kind of the roles that just an example. So a couple of examples of what we could be doing. So we could be working with like a smaller organization and we have a management individual who is performing some HR tasks but really wearing a lot of hats and feeling like they don't have, you know, they don't always have the right amount of time to spend on HR because these are professionals now is kind of up in the air.
 
00:11:09:12 - 00:11:29:14
Jillian Jordan
What am I going to be doing? I have this plan, I have these things that I have to get done. But you may have an investigation come up. You may have a disciplinary action come up. And it is really great to be able to assist members like that and allow us to be flexible and I say flexible a lot because we really are meant to be able to support them in whatever their needs are.
 
00:11:29:14 - 00:11:53:20
Jillian Jordan
So that's one example. You know, the small, small company with somebody wearing a lot of hats, it could be like a mid-sized company where maybe the team needs more support. Right? They've had these lists of projects that they've been wanting to do for a really long time. And they’ve just never seemed to get to them because your day-to-day things, the tasks, they really take up the majority of the time.
 
00:11:54:05 - 00:12:15:00
Jillian Jordan
And we want to make sure that we're supporting the work life balance initiatives that our members have right to support our H.R. teams, the internal HR. teams that they have. So I think that is more a little bit of a generic answer of like kind of the areas that you can see us coming into and helping just as like a couple of good examples.
 
00:12:15:20 - 00:12:29:16
Sophie Boler
So I know you've mentioned just throw out the podcast the responsibilities of an HRBP, but I'm curious to know some of your specific projects that you have worked on or are currently working on for companies since you joined MRA.
 
00:12:30:03 - 00:13:11:21
Jillian Jordan
Yeah. One project that really stands out that's been really fun is working on a recruiting project. So actually we, you know, we come in and we try to minimize the task of the transactional. And really what I've been able to do is work with the team. So it's definitely not me just doing all the work. It's a testament to the great teams that I work with, the great members that I work with, and we're able to look at the process, see where we can trim things down, specifically, maybe add some definition for some steps in the process, because there may have been, you know, we did this for years, but do we know why.
 
00:13:11:21 - 00:13:45:07
Jillian Jordan
You know, I always ask, why are we doing this? Does this add value to the process? Right. So it can lead to challenging conversations, maybe not challenging conversations, but really honest conversations about like, why do we do this and what can we do better? And I've been able to see that process evolve and just how much pride the team has in them believing in this process and understanding why we do each thing that we do and in order to really even sell themselves as an HR
 
00:13:45:07 - 00:14:11:04
Jillian Jordan
Unit to the rest of the organization, because that's essentially who we're servicing, right, is we're servicing our employees. We are helping them achieve their goals. So when I look at the recruiting project that I've been on that it's really exciting to see how far that things have come and just how much more excited people are about the process knowing why we do things.
 
00:14:11:05 - 00:14:13:13
Sophie Boler
So yeah, it's got to be a rewarding job.
 
00:14:13:13 - 00:14:22:10
Jillian Jordan
Yeah. And understand the value is that a lot. But I really want people to understand why are we doing things? And I think that's a huge part of it.
 
00:14:22:10 - 00:14:29:00
Sophie Boler
Yeah, we just talked about having to have some challenging conversations sometimes. Are honest ones.
 
00:14:29:00 - 00:14:29:09
Jillian Jordan
Yeah.
 
00:14:29:12 - 00:14:35:06
Sophie Boler
So what are some of the challenges that you may face as an HRBP?
 
00:14:35:06 - 00:15:11:19
Jillian Jordan
I think that in general HR. Is really challenging. Anyone who's been in HR or even just people that I’ve worked with said I would never want to do your job. It's so challenging. I love it. And i think that what we do specifically at MRA is the biggest challenge of being an MRA business partner would be exactly what we do is we have many different industries, many different size companies, many different personality types that we're working with many different levels of people that we work within the organization.
 
00:15:12:04 - 00:15:32:16
Jillian Jordan
But I think that's why we excel at that, because we recognize that challenge, we prepare for that, and we have designed our business model to be successful at that. So it is one of the most challenging parts. But I think when you know what you're up against in any challenge of HR. I would say that is a really challenging situation.
 
00:15:33:03 - 00:15:43:09
Jillian Jordan
But we're prepared for it, right? We know what we need to do and we can come at that challenge with confidence and just know that we did the right thing.
 
00:15:43:09 - 00:15:45:15
Sophie Boler
You're ready for the challenge. You bring it high.
 
00:15:47:01 - 00:15:47:06
Jillian Jordan
Well.
 
00:15:48:07 - 00:15:53:07
Sophie Boler
Kind of flipping that question, what is your favorite part as an HRBP?
 
00:15:53:07 - 00:16:23:08
Jillian Jordan
My favorite part is definitely the members. I really love working with the members, getting to know each individual that works for the member. I really have been very fortunate to have been welcomed onto these teams. They share their successes. They share snacks, they share lots of great things that we experience. Being on site with members is just understanding their mission and their value.
 
00:16:23:08 - 00:16:44:21
Jillian Jordan
And I say that a lot because I've been so inspired by the members that I work with. I mean, there's been times where I've been like, this is so like almost in tears, just like what we do for the communities. And I think that's something that we do well as an HR business partner team is recognizing we're part of the communities.
 
00:16:44:21 - 00:16:55:09
Jillian Jordan
We are not just this business, we are these many businesses that we work with and the impact that we have on the community is like, I feel like it's immeasurable.
 
00:16:56:02 - 00:16:59:11
Sophie Boler
And you have a very dedicated team and you are very dedicated and.
 
00:17:00:14 - 00:17:02:02
Jillian Jordan
Try to be.
 
00:17:02:02 - 00:17:07:21
Sophie Boler
But just before we wrap up here, do you have any last thoughts to share with our listeners today?
 
00:17:09:07 - 00:17:36:19
Jillian Jordan
I think I kind of covered all of my points. I definitely appreciate you allowing me to come and talk about this role. I think me personally, I have been I've actually worked at companies where I was a member, right? And I use the services, learning and development and the RBI trying to think some of the other areas that I've utilized, so many areas that have helped me, the hotline, etc.
 
00:17:37:10 - 00:17:58:12
Jillian Jordan
And I guess the one thing I hope that HR. Business professionals take from this is that, you know, I’ve been where you're at and I sometimes I’ve asked for help, and it's been the best thing that I’ve done. Sometimes I haven't. And so if I can encourage anybody else who maybe is struggling with, you know, just don't have time for this project or.
 
00:17:58:23 - 00:18:24:18
Jillian Jordan
Yeah, this process just really, really tough. And I just don't have the scope or the ability to understand where I can fix this. Please call us. Please let us know how we can help because I just I that's the goal is for us to help you with your business needs. And I hate for other people to be out there just trudging through it and suffering through just too much workload or things that you're just not that confident in
 
00:18:24:18 - 00:18:26:11
Jillian Jordan
And we can help with that.
 
00:18:26:11 - 00:18:52:09
Sophie Boler
Oh, yeah. Hopefully if you needed a little push to ask for help today was your was helpful. But thank you so much for joining us today and sharing a little bit about what you do and some great benefits of HR BPs. But to our listeners, if you liked our chat today and liked the topic, make sure you like the episode, share the episode, leave a comment or review and consider joining MRA as a member.
 
00:18:52:09 - 00:19:16:12
Sophie Boler
If you aren't a member already, we’ve got all the resources you need in the show notes below. And we have ’Jillian’s email and her LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So if you want to get in touch with her or have a chat or ask her more HRBP questions, I'm sure she'd love to answer those. Otherwise, thank you for tuning in today and thanks Jillian, for your expertise and we will see you all next week.
 
00:19:16:17 - 00:19:39:00
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
 

Talent Report: Make HR a Strategic Partner

Description: MRA’s Talent Report is an up-to-the-minute review of what is going on in the world of business with an emphasis on talent. This month, MRA’s Jim Morgan, VP of Workforce Strategies, and Alicia Kiser, VP of HR of member company M3 Insurance, cover recruiting & retention innovation, talent thinking, HR creativity, and more.
Key Takeaways:
Work/life balance: Are your people “blenders” – those preferring a work-life blend, or “splitters” – those who prefer work and life to be separated entirely?
“Talent Mobility”: Enabling employees to move within the organization is becoming an area of emphasis for many employers
With the varying generations in the workplace, HR professionals are spending more time helping with communications including coaching people to avoid statements like “all young people…” or “all old people…”
Resources:
Become an MRA Member!
Talent Report + Webinar Series 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Alicia Kiser
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Alicia Kiser 
Guest Bio - Jim Morgan 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:03
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:23:14 - 00:00:50:16
Sophie Boler
Hello everybody. Thanks for taking the time to spend part of your day with us. I’m excited to introduce our topic and our two guests for today. We’re going to be covering how to leverage HR for critical business decisions. So we’ll be talking about the current best practices for HR and building strategy. So good thing I have two experts here with me today to really debrief this topic.
 
00:00:50:23 - 00:01:19:06
Sophie Boler
And that is Alicia Kiser, vice president of human resources at member company M3 Insurance, and MRA’s Jim Morgan, vice president of workforce strategies. So Jim and Alicia really make a strong duo for today’s episode, really based on their expertise and HR background. Alicia  started at M3 insurance as an HR business partner back in 2011 and has climbed the ladder to VP of HR, where she is now.
 
00:01:19:06 - 00:01:48:05
Sophie Boler
And Jim Morgan has an extensive background in business development, HR strategic planning, and he’s a keynote speaker on those topics, most recently being on his monthly Talent Report+ webinar. So he’ll be sharing some ideas from that as well. So I’m excited to talk to you two today. Thanks for being on the show. I want to really kick off our conversation today with what’s happening in the recruiting and retention world.
 
00:01:48:18 - 00:01:53:05
Sophie Boler
So, Jim, do you want to start us off with what innovations you’re seeing here?
 
00:01:53:18 - 00:02:20:14
Jim Morgan
Sure. And I’ll back it up just a little bit with the Talent Report, because this was something that we started putting together for our 3,000 member companies. One of the values of that and one of the things we can bring back to our members is having the chance to steal some best practices from different organizations. And M3 being one of those leaders who shares what they’re doing and some of the ways they’re getting around some things to be more effective than the ways they used to do it.
 
00:02:21:02 - 00:02:44:07
Jim Morgan
So we really are, we put the Talent Report webinar together to talk about what’s timely, what’s happening now, what are the best practices. And so the thoughts and ideas that I’m going to share with you are, you know, this is what we’re hearing right now, this is what some of the companies are doing. And Alicia will be able to dig into that a little bit deeper and talk specifically from a company’s point of view, some of the things that that they’re doing.
 
00:02:44:07 - 00:03:02:13
Jim Morgan
So in the last month, here’s a couple of things that we heard in the whole recruiting and retention area. One of the most fascinating things that I found was there was a survey done by Gallup and they were looking at how people manage work-life balance. And they found they really fell into two groups of people that they called splitters and blenders.
 
00:03:02:22 - 00:03:19:17
Jim Morgan
And the splitters were the people that were able to just divide their world, like, “Look, I’m working from 8 until 5 and then I get home and that’s it. Now I’m on life balance time,” and others that were more blenders that were like, look, I’m working and I’m, you know, and I’m doing my life at the same time.
 
00:03:20:03 - 00:03:47:09
Jim Morgan
And what was interesting is some of it fell by industry and some of it fell by job type. But the one that was the most interesting to me is when you got into people that were managers of people, it was almost a 50/50 split between blenders and splitters, which I found interesting. But the point in the whole thing was you need to know whether your people are blenders or splitters when you’re talking about benefits. You might be giving more hours and that’s not what somebody wants.
 
00:03:47:09 – 00:04:13:06
Jim Morgan
Or you might say, “You can leave a little bit early” and they’re like, “I don’t leave early. I never leave. I’m always working,” and truly understanding how your people are managing. That whole work-life balance really made a difference. The second one that we learned a little bit about was just everybody’s focused on learning. And I know Alicia can talk about this and the learning development they do at M3, but companies are really now starting to say, Look, we have to have somebody in charge of this.
 
00:04:13:06 - 00:04:55:17
Jim Morgan
We can’t accidentally do our learning and development here. It’s got to be more conscientious. It’s got to be more specific, and especially with a lot of the younger workers, that career path and development is really a big deal for them. And the last one that we spent some time on was when I called “catch ’em young.” And I think manufacturers have done this for a long time, going back to when the skill sets of skilled technology people, skilled tradespeople, carpentry, masonry, IT, things like that, they weren’t finding the people they needed, that they realized that they had to really go back, almost into the middle schools, and start saying, these are jobs that are available.
 
00:04:55:17 - 00:05:30:07
Jim Morgan
So don’t rule them out because people have said certain things. And then in high school, getting on the advisory councils for the tech department and making sure people know and at the tech colleges and universities and there we’ve seen just a huge growth in co-ops, youth apprenticeships and internships that companies are starting to realize that we gotta be the first ones to get in there and find these kids and university students and young adults, and not wait until they’re 18, 22, 23, because by then everybody’s looking for them.
 
00:05:30:15 - 00:05:42:10
Jim Morgan
So just the strategies that companies are starting to put into place now that say this talent supply chain starts much earlier than the age of 20, and we’ve got to figure out how to get in there a little bit quicker.
 
00:05:42:10 - 00:05:58:23
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. It’s kind of crazy to think that companies are targeting as young as middle school. It just sounds crazy, but that’s what’s happening. Alicia, Jim mentioned about work-life balance, so I’m curious to know what M3 is doing around work-life balance for your employees.
 
00:06:00:08 - 00:06:22:07
Alicia Kiser
Yeah, absolutely. But first of all, Jim, I need you to send me that report on blenders and splitters. That’s fascinating. I’m definitely not a blender. I’m a splitter. If you’re a  splitter and you have a team of blenders, I could certainly see how that would bring about some conflict. I think that’s really fascinating and a great topic for us to plug into.
 
00:06:22:07 - 00:06:46:12
Alicia Kiser
So kind of in that vein, you know, work-life balance—so we, M3 has chosen to have a hybrid approach to where people work. So what that means for us is that we, and we actually kind of branded this, right, so we could help people understand it with a nice flashy one-pager and did some all-company meetings about it.
 
00:06:46:12 - 00:07:17:03
Alicia Kiser
But what that means to us, what hybrid means to us, is that the office is primary and from there we just ask M3ers to work with their team to figure out when and how often they’re in the office versus not in the office. And to us not in the office could mean working from home, but for us, because we are, really revolve around our clients that could also be in the marketplace meeting with prospects and clients in the marketplace.
 
00:07:17:03 - 00:07:39:17
Alicia Kiser
And so and for us, it’s really not about butts in seats. I like to talk about that because I think there’s a difference in an organization’s posture, if you’re talking about butts in seats versus being in the office for the right reasons. And we went so far as to define here are some specific instances where we feel like being in the office is a must.
 
00:07:39:22 - 00:08:15:18
Alicia Kiser
So when you’re onboarding a new person to your team, when you’re having performance issues or communications within your team, you know, during, we are we’re in the insurance industry. And so there are certain times of the year where being on the same page and collaborating and connecting is extremely important, maybe more than others. And there are many, many others, but we want to define what are those kind of moments that matter, where being together, physically together is super advantageous and really help
 
00:08:16:17 - 00:08:18:10
Alicia Kiser
M3 stand apart from the rest.
 
00:08:18:18 - 00:08:36:02
Sophie Boler
So I mean, you just mentioned being a hybrid workforce, which is great. So can you dive in a little bit deeper on how you’re really handling that to ensure that all your employees, your customers, and M3’s needs are being met?
 
00:08:36:02 - 00:09:10:06
Alicia Kiser
Yeah. So: trust. We are not tracking fob swipes or we don’t have someone walking around taking attendance every day. We work really hard in whatever we roll out not to manage to the exception. I think it’s easy to think about, well, what about, you know, all these people that are going to take advantage of us and, you know, do 2-hour lunches in the middle of the day or do their laundry while they’re working from home, and we try to really kind of center around let’s not manage to the exception.
 
00:09:10:23 - 00:09:44:10
Alicia Kiser
Let’s focus on the majority and deal with the exception as it comes up. And so that’s our philosophy around the hybrid work, the hybrid workforce, but just generally most things  at M3. And I think that that bodes well for us from a recruitment and retention perspective. The hybrid, as we’ve been recruiting, we’ve had a lot of success in bringing people onto our team whose companies have said, Hey, we aren’t going to come into the office until we don’t know when.
 
00:09:44:10 - 00:10:08:23
Alicia Kiser
We’ve also had a lot of success in hiring and bringing people onto the team whose companies have said, like, Hey, we want you to be in the office, butts in seats, every day because of our approach. And I would say as the weeks and the months go on, I am seeing more and more people in the office because I think the kind of excitement or novelty around working from home is wearing off a little bit.
 
00:10:09:12 - 00:10:16:22
Alicia Kiser
But just to have the option and feel like you have the freedom to make a choice, of course, in working with your team, I think goes a long way.
 
00:10:17:12 - 00:10:39:18
Sophie Boler
Oh, absolutely. And I like how you brought up the whole trust aspect because that is so important. I mean, some employees, like we’ve seen, Jim, they like to work at 9:00, 10:00 at night, and you almost just have to put that trust into them, like they’re getting their work done when they feel most productive. And that might mean working at different times depending on the employee.
 
00:10:40:04 - 00:10:41:12
Alicia Kiser
So the blenders, right, Jim?
 
00:10:41:12 - 00:10:47:01
Jim Morgan
Yeah, the I get at 3:00 in the morning are the ones I don’t respond to.
 
00:10:47:12 - 00:10:50:08
Alicia Kiser
Yeah. So you’re, you’re not a blender then.
 
00:10:50:08 - 00:10:53:06
Jim Morgan
I think I am just not between 1 in the morning and 5.
 
00:10:55:01 – 00:10:55:22
Alicia Kiser
There are boundaries.
 
00:10:56:08 – 00:11:09:18
Sophie Boler
I would say I’m a blender, but. Well, moving on, another topic that I’d really like to discuss is what’s going on in the talent world. So, Jim, do you want to talk a little bit about what you’ve been seeing here?
 
00:11:09:18 – 00:11:39:23
Jim Morgan
Yeah, we had three things that we discussed in the Talent Report. The first one was the imposter syndrome, and that was the title that’s been given to the 2 years of COVID for employees and college students. And really what it relates to is if you think about those students that lost their junior and senior year in college and what happened in those 2 years, or you think about the people who came out right before the pandemic and their first 2 years of work
 
00:11:40:09 – 00:11:58:03
Jim Morgan
were right in the middle of COVID, that they missed out on a whole bunch of experiences. You know, for the kids in college, that’s where you sometimes get your internships. You get to go work for people. You didn’t have those opportunities. For those that had started work, you know, how do you figure out the culture? How do you figure out who your mentors are?
 
00:11:58:04 – 00:12:19:16
Jim Morgan
Who do you get to go talk to when you’ve got questions? Those things got disrupted and companies are now starting to realize things got missed during those couple of years and we may have to back up a little bit and say, you know what, We didn’t really get a chance to onboard them the way we like to onboard them or set things up the way we like to because we just couldn’t because of the circumstances.
 
00:12:20:00 – 00:12:42:15
Jim Morgan
And so that’s been an emphasis for some companies now to say what got missed out on and what blanks do we have to fill in now. Somewhat related to that was one that I called “Got Onboarding?” kind of after the “Got Milk?” campaign. But the whole onboarding process as companies now are moving from the, just the endless search for new employees and recruiting—
 
00:12:42:16 - 00:13:05:10
Jim Morgan
We got to find 10 more and then 10 more and then 10 more—stopping now and saying, well, that’s part of it. But once we get ’em, we got to figure out how to keep ’em. And that first week, month, 6 months of the job is just so critical. And so just like in the learning and development area, companies are now looking at onboarding and saying, we really need somebody to look at this strategically.
 
00:13:05:10 - 00:13:26:12
Jim Morgan
Not we got to check these seven boxes, but at the end of it, are people feeling welcome? Do they have a feel for the company and the culture? Is this a place they want to come back to? And I was in M3e just a week ago, and Sean LaBorde, the president, was saying, “You know, we’re trying to be a magnet for people,” which I found really interesting, that we want to have spaces
 
00:13:26:12 - 00:13:56:03
Jim Morgan
they want to come to and they want to have conversations they want to be a part of, and then they’ll want to be here. And I think that’s another part of this whole onboarding and building that culture is creating a spot that’s inviting and that that’s a place that I do want to be. And then lastly, a discussion on talent
 mobility and again, trying to hang on to people and looking at it from, you know, some companies are very passive and they say, Wow, Sophie’s a great employee.
 
00:13:56:09 - 00:14:12:11
Jim Morgan
We should figure out how to make her happy and keep her. And they just look at Sophie and say, Wow, we can give her an opportunity here or have her do this and have her do that. And it’s a great plan for you to hopefully help you understand your mobility within the organization and your chance to rise in it.
 
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:31:22
Jim Morgan
But it’s not really active for the organization. It’s not the organization saying, well, not just Sophie, let’s find all of our high performers. Let’s find everybody and see how do we move them, how do we give them different opportunities, whether it’s lateral or up and down. And so then we get into, okay, let’s be more active about it.
 
00:14:31:22 - 00:14:53:14
Jim Morgan
Let’s put a plan in place that gives people opportunities to figure out what they want to do. And then leading up to ultimately, how do we make this strategic? How is this mobility part of our succession planning of making sure we’ve always got the next person up so they can get their job done? And talking with companies about where are you with that.
 
00:14:53:14 - 00:15:13:07
Jim Morgan
Because traditionally or historically, I think it’s been more of a, well we find a person, let’s make sure we hang on to them versus an organization-wide opportunity to say strategically, we’ve got to look at people and figure out how can we keep moving them up in over 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and no longer have it be:
 
00:15:13:13 – 00:15:36:13
Jim Morgan
“Well, Alicia, if you stay here for 27 years, here’s the opportunity for you to maybe move up a little bit”. So a lot of work on talent, mobility and helping both the employee find their niche and what’s going on and the employer making sure that they’re not only have the butt in the seat, but that they’ve got the right people in the right seats so they can be as effective as they possibly can be.
 
00:15:37:11 – 00:15:48:11
Sophie Boler
I love that example, Jim. And just talking about talent mobility, Alicia, is that really a thing at M3? And if it is, what have you really implemented around this?
 
00:15:49:19 - 00:16:16:01
Alicia Kiser
Yeah, so I’m a huge fan of this topic. I actually started my career at a very, very large organization in a role, like a leadership development type program where every 18 months we rotated from one kind of department or discipline to the next, like think operations, HR,, logistics, customer service and while working for a very, very large organization wasn’t my cup of tea—
00:16:16:07 - 00:16:51:00
Alicia Kiser
I’m certainly happier at a midsized organization—I learned a lot. I would never take that experience back and, you know, the reason why is because I think that it really helps you understand, it helps you build your business acumen. It helps you learn about each of the functions of an organization in that particular industry and in that particular organization and the different levers that can be pulled to produce certain outcomes within that organization or that industry.
 
00:16:51:09 - 00:17:26:16
Alicia Kiser
And without getting the perspective from lots of different disciplines, it’s not as easy to do that. And I also think it helps you appreciate what your team, what your peers and coworkers are doing every day. And I think it allows you to have more empathy but just work better together on the softer side of things. And so specific to M3, I would say we are kind of in the early stages of this or working to find more opportunities to infuse talent, mobility, into our development efforts and into our roles.
 
00:17:27:00 - 00:18:07:17
Alicia Kiser
Right now we are absolutely doing it with our internship program, kind of our sales accelerator and sales development program. And, you know, per the reasons that I cited and why I think it’s so valuable, we’re certainly seeing, you know, those, that work pay off in those particular roles. The other thing that we’ve done to your comment, Jim, about college students who have lost their junior and senior years potentially entering the workforce: So in our internship program, I mean, we rotate and give them exposure to the different parts of M3.
 
00:18:07:17 - 00:18:32:03
Alicia Kiser
But we also started to partner with our insurance companies that we partner with. M3 is a broker. So we work with hundreds of different insurance companies and you know, those who have offices where we have offices, we’ve done intern swaps, and that is a fan favorite amongst our interns and interns from our carrier partners, because again, it gives you different perspective.
 
00:18:32:03 - 00:18:51:21
Alicia Kiser
And I think our perspective and our career partners perspective has been, you know, because one could say, well, what if they like that internship program better than this one? It’s like, well, we’re you know, the rising tide floats all boats, right? We’re gaining exposure and excitement and engagement throughout the industry. And, you know, we’ll all win in that way.
 
00:18:51:21 - 00:18:55:14
Sophie Boler
Mm. I love that example of intern swapping.
 
00:18:56:13 - 00:19:02:17
Alicia Kiser
It was it’s fun. And we’re just because it is such a fan favorite looking for more opportunities to do things like that.
 
00:19:03:04 - 00:19:20:23
Sophie Boler
Oh yeah. And even when I was younger or in college, job shadowing companies in their different departments was something I loved to do, to just get exposure of what each department is doing. And then I could find what I like doing and carry on from there.
 
00:19:20:23 - 00:19:38:08
Alicia Kiser
Yeah, as a young person, you kind of know what you want to do, but until you gain those experiences, I don’t think you really know and you’re secretly building up this business acumen that will for sure to your advantage in the future that you’re not even aware of at that time for sure.
 
00:19:38:11 - 00:19:55:05
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. Well, you know, more than ever, we’ve seen businesses needing to pull together some creative plans when it comes to some of the topics that we’ve discussed today. So, Jim, I’m curious to know some of the top creative HR strategies that you’ve been seeing.
 
00:19:56:08 - 00:20:04:06
Jim Morgan
Well, first I have to react to when the host of the show who I think is, you know, in her mid- to early 20 says, “When I was young ...”
 
00:20:06:05 - 00:20:07:05
Sophie Boler
I knew you would say something!
 
00:20:10:17 - 00:20:36:07
Jim Morgan
In the creativity area, a couple of things are happening. We have a lot of companies, especially manufacturers, that English is not the first language for a lot of their workers. And so companies have been spending a lot of time on helping those employees learn English as a second language. But now we’re seeing it work the other way, too, and expectations of supervisors and managers to learn the language of the people who are working for them.
 
00:20:36:07 - 00:20:57:09
Jim Morgan
And they’re sort of looking at this as if we come at it from both sides, we’re going to improve the communications one way or another. And so we’ve got a lot of people becoming bilingual, both as the worker and as the supervisor, as they try to figure out ways to make sure everybody is communicating as accurately and easily as possible.
 
00:20:57:09 - 00:21:18:10
Jim Morgan
I had an interesting experience in a manufacturing facility where they’re always trying to motivate the people that are running their machines, helping them know that, you know, the value they bring to the organization, which is fantastic. And also trying to subtly remind them occasionally that this is a $27 million machine you’re running here. So let’s make sure, you know, we’re taking good care of it.
 
00:21:19:00 - 00:21:39:02
Jim Morgan
And they had actually put the price tag of each machine right on the machine, saying that this lathe is worth this much money or this manufacturing piece is worth this many million dollars. And they said they do it as a way of saying to the people who are operating them, we’ve put this much trust in you, that we think that this is fantastic.
 
00:21:39:02 - 00:22:12:02
Jim Morgan
You’re a skilled operator and that’s wonderful. At the same time, you know, saying let’s not get sloppy here because there’s a lot at stake. And sometimes people sort of take that for granted. Now that I just made fun of you as a young person, generational diversity is one that we’re seeing, you know, popping up more in everyone’s diversity, equity and inclusion, especially as we have a whole bunch of younger people coming in and a pretty big generation of people still there but on their way out and the HR
 
00:22:12:02 - 00:22:31:22
Jim Morgan
people really having to spend more time with people helping them understand that sentences start with, “Well, you’ve been here so long, you probably don’t know that” or “You just got here. You’ll eventually figure it out.” That you know, the harm that’s done in a lot of these assumptions of saying, “Well, you’ve only been here for 2 years, what could you possibly know?”
 
00:22:32:08 - 00:22:59:21
Jim Morgan
And one example here where someone said, Yeah, somebody just said to me, “Well once you’ve been here longer you’ll figure it out.” And your reaction to that is, “Why would you have me figure it out over the next 5 years and keep making the same mistakes? Why don’t you just tell me what you know and we can both learn, you know, together,” that there’s a lot of things that are kind of taken for granted in the age compartment that, “Oh, that’s just a joke” or this “Everybody understands that, you know,”—not so much.
 
00:23:00:05 - 00:23:25:03
Jim Morgan
And so as the generations have very different communication styles, very different ways of communicating, very different life experiences, more time being spent on helping, you know, millennials and Zers understand boomers and Xers and everything in between that we’ve all done different things. We all bring great assets to the organization. And some of the stereotypes are in the way of that.
 
00:23:25:03 - 00:23:54:04
Jim Morgan
So spending a little bit more time on generational diversity. And then one last one that we had is people have been churning folks like crazy. And an HR department was having a hard time explaining to people that when we get these people in and they stay for 3 weeks and they walk out the door, that’s a lot of time and effort wasted, and trying to develop a corporate strategy that says this is HR and the recruiters and the hiring managers and the other people that they work with.
 
00:23:54:04 - 00:24:14:07
Jim Morgan
All of them have to do this together in order for us to hang on to these people. And so they decided to use an all-staff meeting as an example. And they had churned about 30 percent of their people in the past year. So they had talked to 30 people in advance and they got up and said, We’re trying to visualize here how much work we’re doing, trying to hang on to people.
 
00:24:14:15 - 00:24:43:17
Jim Morgan
And so we’re going to give you an example right now of this is how many people walked out the door in the last year and 30 percent of the audience, which was about 100 people, got up and walked out of the all-staff meeting to try to help visualize for people: Do you see how much work this is? And so that was their creative way of saying it is kind of everybody’s job and we would really like your help because otherwise we have to go fill those hundred jobs who just walked out the door in the last 35 seconds.
 
00:24:44:00 - 00:24:48:11
Jim Morgan
So I thought that one was a pretty creative way for people to try to get everybody on board.
 
00:24:48:20 - 00:25:06:07
Sophie Boler
Yeah, that is a creative way to show the impact. So Jim talked about generational diversity here. Alicia, how is M3 really handling diversity, equity and inclusions in general and how are you dealing with the whole generational diversity specifically?
 
00:25:08:01 - 00:25:44:03
Alicia Kiser
Yeah, it’s certainly ongoing. And I will say we are definitely not an expert in the space, but man, are we grinding. And so I actually co-lead, we have a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee, which is a cross-functional group of some leaders, some individual contributors from across the organization, from all of our offices. I work with our CEO to put a strategic plan, if you will, together around diversity, equity, inclusion.
 
00:25:45:05 - 00:26:38:21
Alicia Kiser
And our committee is charged with education and awareness. But we really look for our leadership team to be accountable for and live out within their respective areas, helping M3 move the needle on all things diversity, equity and inclusion. And it’s been fun to see how, as we kind of, I recently saw a continuum of an organization’s DEI efforts from compliance to committee to leadership owned and then being a truly inclusive organization. I would say we’re moving into that leader owned phase of DEI and it’s been fun to see our leadership team find their own ways to lean into DEI work.
 
00:26:38:21 - 00:27:08:15
Alicia Kiser
And it’s been very different, but it allows them to own it and feel comfortable in leading on it with their respective teams. And so that’s been, that’s probably been the most notable and most fun thing for me to see. One of the things we moved away from when we were in that committee phase putting the organization’s DEI efforts on a committee, a cross-functional committee is a lot and that’s a heavy load to carry.
 
00:27:08:22 - 00:27:36:18
Alicia Kiser
And it’s tough too because this is this is like not a project, not an initiative. It’s a long game, it’s a marathon. And it can become discouraging when you’re not seeing maybe the immediate results that you want to see. And so when we made that, when we kind of articulated flipping the switch from, Hey, hey, committee, you’re actually not, this is, the responsibility for this work isn’t on your shoulders, but we’d like you to lead on education and awareness.
 
00:27:37:01 - 00:28:04:22
Alicia Kiser
This, the responsibility and accountability is on the leadership team. That was a big game changer, I think a big moment for us in moving our efforts forward. So maybe that’s that’s what I would say from a DEI perspective. There’s certainly other things. I mean, one thing we’re really proud of and I’ve had an opportunity to talk about with MRA in lots of different forums is our Women’s Business Resource Group.
 
00:28:04:22 - 00:28:30:14
Alicia Kiser
So it’s essentially an affinity group. We have over half, over 60 percent of our overall population is female. And so that was kind of a natural place for us to start is with women at M3, and especially with all the stats that you’ve seen kind of within COVID and post-COVID about women exiting the workplace, our focus is keeping M3 women in the workplace.
 
00:28:31:00 - 00:29:02:03
Alicia Kiser
And we started that group in 2018 and just have had a lot of great evolution in terms of providing development opportunities for women at M3 up to giving them opportunities to lead in ways or have more global involvement in work at M3 outside of like the key area that they’re focused in from a day-to-day basis, which allows them to get exposure amongst leadership and other people throughout the organization.
 
00:29:02:18 - 00:29:43:08
Alicia Kiser
But it is also a professional development opportunity as well. So those are just a couple of things maybe I would mention. And then as it relates to generational diversity, we’re hearing more and more about this in terms of M3’s interest in learning about how to navigate through generational diversity—certainly a hot topic. One of the things I’ll talk about that we’ve had a lot of success with and are trying to do more of is finding more natural ways to get different generations to collaborate and build relationships and respect for each other.
 
00:29:43:17 - 00:30:43:09
Alicia Kiser
And so, for example, we’ve got an overall mentorship program throughout the organization, but we also have mentorship in different pockets. Like, for example, we have a shareholder development program and are really intentional about how we match people up. I think that’s one way that we’ve supported generational diversity, but also going back to your comments, Jim, about onboarding and our development efforts, career planning, career mapping, we as much as possible with so much institutional knowledge with some of the folks that are nearing retirement, we try to lean on those individuals to facilitate our development sessions, training sessions, you know, use their expertise to educate other M3ers and obviously they’re not
 
00:30:44:01 - 00:31:07:09
Alicia Kiser
professional speakers or facilitators, or and they don’t have that expertise. But our talent development team works to provide the framework for them to share their knowledge, whether that be in-person or on demand, using our learning management system. So really like organize that and deliver it in a way that can be impactful for M3ers of all generations.
 
00:31:07:09 - 00:31:16:03
Alicia Kiser
And so that’s maybe a little bit more indirect way of navigating that generational diversity topic.
 
00:31:17:00 - 00:31:28:06
Sophie Boler
I like that, and I like how you brought up mentors. I think mentors are, can, I don’t know, lead to huge impacts on the organization and the employee too. But as we really wrap, oops sorry go ahead.
 
00:31:28:13 - 00:31:52:14
Alicia Kiser
Oh no, sorry. I was just going to say I was just on a call this morning with our CEO and he said, “You can’t rush wisdom.” And so I think that’s very true. And the more that we can get these folks working with each other, I think, you can’t rush wisdom. But the more we can help infuse and ensure that that moves from one generation to the next.
 
00:31:53:04 - 00:32:15:05
Sophie Boler
And like you said in a natural way. I like that. But as we do wrap up here, Alicia, Jim has mentioned to me your role at M3 and not only in HR leadership, but just as a leader at the company overall. So what advice would you give to HR professionals trying to move from a tactical position to more of a strategic one?
 
00:32:15:05 - 00:32:21:06
Sophie Boler
And Jim, feel free to offer your thoughts and advice as well.
 
00:32:21:06 - 00:33:17:18
Alicia Kiser
Yeah. So thanks for asking this. I would actually go back to my comments earlier about business acumen. I think, ,and I recently was reflecting on this with my coworker, my colleague, our HR director, and we both agreed that the, our early exposure to an ability to build business acumen was one of the key things that I think helps make that jump from I call it like taking off my department hat on and putting my M3 hat on and I think what that has allowed me to do is, of course, truly understand the business and the different levers that make the business work, but also helps me to be viewed as a more valuable partner
 
00:33:17:18 - 00:33:45:16
Alicia Kiser
to the other leaders throughout the organization, and helps have my opinions and perspectives validated because I’m not necessarily just approaching it through my department’s lens, but trying to frame it in a way that considers all lenses. And I certainly so. so I just I would go back to that business acumen. I think that’s a really big one.
 
00:33:47:04 - 00:33:54:10
Sophie Boler
Jim, anything to add? 
 
00:33:54:10 - 00:34:13:12
Jim Morgan
I would say that’s the biggest one. And I think the advantage right now is with the talent issue being what it is, you all of a sudden are one of the most important people in the decision-making process because they can find land, they can find a building, they can get a loan. But at the end of the day, somebody has to say, well, where are we going to find people to do it?
 
00:34:13:12 - 00:34:36:06
Jim Morgan
And that is the HR person. And the second one is with all of the HRISs out there and all the data that’s being collected in the HR department now, you also become a data analyst, and you can provide information on an awful lot of things that’s very business related. So I think both of those go right back to what Alicia said is that you’re not making HR decisions.
 
00:34:36:06 - 00:34:42:20
Jim Morgan
You’re making business, strategic business decisions, and that immediately elevate you to a different level.
 
00:34:42:20 - 00:35:14:06
Alicia Kiser
And if I could if I could summarize, I would say I always view myself—and I think this can apply to any department, whether you’re marketing, finance, HR, customer service—I consider myself a business person first, and HR just as the discipline or the way that I choose to channel my business skills, and I think if we think more like that, making that jump from tactical to strategic becomes, it becomes easier and fun.
 
00:35:14:16 - 00:35:37:09
Sophie Boler
And that’s some good advice. Yeah. Well, I want to thank both of you for being on the 30 minute THRIVE podcast today and sharing your knowledge on the latest of using HR as a strategic partner. So if you liked our chat and topic today, I want to encourage listeners to share this episode, leave a comment or review, and consider joining MRA if you aren’t a member already.
 
00:35:37:14 - 00:36:00:15
Sophie Boler
We’ve got all the resources you need in the show notes below, so take a look at those and we have linked Jim and Alicia’s email and LinkedIn profile in the show notes below. So if you’d like to get in touch with them or just chat about whatever, they’re available for you. Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and thank you both for the great info and we will see you next week.
 
00:36:01:01 - 00:36:02:00
Alicia Kiser
Thanks for having me.
 
00:36:02:13 - 00:36:03:07
Jim Morgan
Thank you, Sophie.
 
00:36:04:01 - 00:36:26:08
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.’’’
 

What’s Hot On MRA’s Hotline?

Description: Whether it's HR best practices for critical compliance topics, providing a sounding board for complex employee situations, or just the latest information on an HR issue, you can count on MRA's experienced HR Advisors to lend an ear and provide answers. MRA's HR Hotline Manager, Nicole Morehouse, is here to give you an overview of this widely-used resource! 
Key Takeaways:
MRA's HR Hotline Advisors each have 15+ years of HR knowledge. 
99.9% of questions asked on the hotline are answered the same day.
The hotline is a member exclusive benefit, so membership is definitely encouraged if you want to use the hotline!
Resources:
MRA's 24/7 HR Hotline  
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Nicole Morehouse
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Nicole Morehouse 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:25:08
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:26:08 - 00:00:48:00
Sophie Boler
Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 minute THRIVE. We are so glad you’re here and joining us today. And today we’re really here to introduce you and give you an overview of a great resource we have at MRA, and that is the HR Hotline. So luckily, I’m here with an expert today, Nicole Morehouse, our manager of the HR Hotline.
 
00:00:48:00 - 00:01:14:05
Sophie Boler
And Nicole has had over 20 years of experience in just about every area you could think of in HR. So she’s really passionate about what she does, and I’m excited to talk to her today. So thank you for being here today, Nicole. I’m excited to learn more about the hotline and hear some insight from you.
 
Nicole Morehouse Thank you.
 
00:01:14:16 - 00:01:22:04
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. So like I mentioned, one of our most widely used resources here at MRA, is our 24/7 HR Hotline. So could you explain what the hotline is to someone who has never heard of this resource or isn’t too familiar?
 
00:01:22:14 - 00:01:50:02
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah. What is the hotline? The hotline is the most phenomenal resource. So you’re right. I mean, it is widely used by the members. Picture this: It’s 6 p.m. You have an issue. You want to hear some guidance from a knowledgeable person. You can call the hotline and the phone call is going to get picked up by someone that has 15-plus years of experience, like myself, to help you out.
 
00:01:50:09 - 00:02:04:08
Sophie Boler
Awesome. So you mentioned the hotline operates 24/7. What does that exactly mean and what happens if someone were to call in at 2 a.m. if they were up all night thinking about something or maybe on Christmas or a holiday?
 
00:02:04:16 - 00:02:24:01
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah, it truly is 24/7/365. So the hotline doesn’t rest on holidays. A member certainly could call any day of the week, any time of the day. It’s not often that a member needs something at 2 a.m., but I mean, if you do, right, it’s good to know that you have a resource available.
 
00:02:24:15 - 00:02:35:02
Sophie Boler
Okay. So going along with that question, how responsive are our hotline advisors to calls? I mean, do they pick up right away and answer? Would they put you on hold for a little bit?
 
00:02:35:21 - 00:02:48:11
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah, hopefully no putting on hold. Your call’s answered very quickly, usually within a matter of seconds. So if you’re calling in during normal business hours, it’s just a matter of seconds, then you’re connected to an advisor.
 
00:02:48:17 - 00:03:01:22
Sophie Boler
Okay. And you also mentioned this is a great tool to use for our members, but can nonmembers also use the hotline? Can they call in? Who really is this resource available to?
 
00:03:02:08 - 00:03:10:05
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah, the hotline is a member-exclusive benefit. So membership is definitely encouraged if you want to use the hotline.
 
00:03:10:09 - 00:03:19:04
Sophie Boler
Okay. And could you give us a good explanation of really a day in the life of a hotline advisor? What is your day in the life?
 
00:03:19:07 - 00:03:39:20
Nicole Morehouse
So I mean, during the day, right, you know, see picture during business hours, we had several advisors working and we get numerous calls that come in or sometimes emails. I remember a particular day where we had an advisor that had 40 calls, if you want to call them calls. So that’s a combination of phone calls and emails and requests from the website.
 
00:03:40:06 - 00:04:00:21
Nicole Morehouse
Those can be from, for numerous different reasons. So it could be something very simple, like asking for a sample policy or a sample form or maybe something super complex. So like newly implemented regulations or a disability accommodation or something like an employee relations scenario.
 
00:04:01:12 - 00:04:20:06
Sophie Boler
And you just mentioned a couple of reasons why people call into the hotline. I think some people are also pretty hesitant on calling just because they don’t want to ask a dumb question or look bad. So could you tell us more about what people should be calling about and how should they be using the hotline as a resource?
 
00:04:20:11 - 00:04:42:15
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah, that’s a great question. There really isn’t a dumb question. There’s no dumb question to call in for. So even the most experienced HR professionals call us sometimes. Sometimes they just want to talk through a scenario with another professional that’s on a level that they are at, and then sometimes it’s somebody very new to HR that might be, you know, they don’t have a lot of resources internally.
 
00:04:42:15 - 00:05:07:03
Nicole Morehouse
Maybe they’re a solo HR practitioner and then they want some guidance. A lot of times we save HR practitioners a lot of time because they will need certain things or certain information. They have to run off to a meeting. We’re there to answer or provide. And then when that person gets back to their desk, they have an email or the information that they were looking for in a particular topic.
 
00:05:08:03 - 00:05:18:11
Nicole Morehouse
You know, it’s all under the umbrella of human resources and compliance. But if you’re in HR, you know that anything that touches people really qualifies as HR.
 
00:05:19:13 - 00:05:28:16
Sophie Boler
And talking about some of those questions that people ask. Do you have any memorable or crazy stories from the hotline that you can share? Just had to ask.
 
00:05:28:18 – 00:05:55:04
Nicole Morehouse
Yeah, I thought you might ask me that. And that’s kind of a hard question because there are lots of memorable moments. I just was catching up with one of our advisors before I came in here and we chatted about a half a dozen of them—and not from our members per se, but from our experience as HR directors. And there are a lot of memorable moments, but we keep that very close to the vest.
 
Sophie BolerRight.
 
00:05:55:04 - 00:05:57:02
Nicole Morehouse
When you call us, you’re calling in confidence.
 
00:05:57:18 - 00:06:15:22
Sophie Boler
I guess that’s a good thing. We won’t hear it today. So our hotline advisors like you must hear a lot of different questions on a lot of different topics. So where do you and the other hotline advisors really get all the information they need to answer the question correctly and thoroughly?
 
00:06:16:05 - 00:06:38:20
Nicole Morehouse
The criteria to be an advisor you have to have amassed a tremendous amount of experience, even to be an advisor. So right from the get-go, based on your experience, you probably have a lot of knowledge that’s required for answering calls that come in. In addition to that, we know exactly where to find regulatory information.
 
00:06:39:10 - 00:07:03:18
Nicole Morehouse
We get regular feeds on the information. So hopefully we know about information before the member does and have that all at the ready to go. So and we also produce content that relates to the types of questions that we get. So if members call in on any particular topic repeatedly, you know, we’re going to make sure that we have resources that the member can get quickly, get in their hands from the hotline.
 
00:07:05:14 - 00:07:15:22
Sophie Boler
So as we begin 2023, I’d really love to go over some stats from 2022. So how many calls did you receive on the hotline last year?
 
00:07:16:07 - 00:07:22:04
Nicole Morehouse
Over 24,000. So 24,386 calls last year.
 
00:07:22:04 - 00:07:22:13
Sophie Boler
That is crazy.
 
00:07:22:13 - 00:07:38:06
Nicole Morehouse
Most of those do come, about half or so come in through the phone, right? But we also get emails and then people contact us through the website. So the phone is the most popular way. It’s very interactive. And like I said before, you get answers within seconds.
 
00:07:38:10 - 00:07:53:03
Sophie Boler
Wow, that’s crazy. Well, you’re very successful here. And I’m sure out of all those calls, there were a huge variety of call topics on that. So can you narrow it down to maybe the most called upon topic from 2022?
 
00:07:53:13 - 00:08:20:07
Nicole Morehouse
Leaves of absence. And I experienced that myself. So if I’m on the hotline, you know, leave of absence, some other reasons that someone might call in are accommodating disability scenarios, definitely compensation, interpreting market data, maybe they participated in the survey and they have the survey and they want to use that data. So they might contact us about that.
 
00:08:21:01 - 00:08:47:18
Nicole Morehouse
Definitely employee relations. So performance management, discipline situations, situations that involve terminations, the step of termination, wage and hour compliance, a lot of our members have expanded in the last couple of years and they’re in locations that they’ve never been before. And so we get a lot of questions on mobile compliance in new physical locations where maybe they don’t have experience yet.
 
00:08:48:07 - 00:08:58:05
Sophie Boler
Sure. Well, we’ve been talking a lot about the hotline, but I want to know more about your role. So what is your favorite part on working with a hotline, with your team?
 
00:08:58:06 - 00:09:00:09
Nicole Morehouse
Okay, now you give me an easy question.
 
 
 
00:09:00:12 - 00:09:19:03
Nicole Morehouse
It is the team itself. So I mean, it’s a wonderful group of professionals. They’re very uniquely qualified. So just when I think I couldn’t be impressed more, they impress me. Yeah. I mean, it’s just the knowledge that they have and the skills that they have to do what they do is just beyond impressive.
 
00:09:19:06 - 00:09:26:22
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. The hotline team I feel like, is always like, ready to go, ready to give you an answer. They’re also excited about it, too.
 
00:09:26:22 - 00:09:32:16
Nicole Morehouse
Right. And they really, truly enjoy working for the member. And so they really value that relationship.
 
00:09:32:16 - 00:09:41:16
Sophie Boler
Well, just before we wrap up, do you have any lasting comments or thoughts to share with our listeners before we go?
 
00:09:41:16 - 00:10:08:15
Nicole Morehouse
Thank you for showcasing the hotline today. That’s greatly appreciated. And then if you haven’t used the hotline before or if you’re not a member and you want to use the hotline, I strongly encourage you to go through that process—become a member, or if you’re a member already, contact the hotline to get a couple of calls underway so that you can see the benefit that you have available to you.
 
00:10:08:15 - 00:10:31:07
Sophie Boler
And so when you start getting more comfortable calling and calling and you can’t stop!
 
Nicole Morehouse
Right, exactly.
 
Sophie BolerWell, thank you so much for joining us today, Nicole, and thank you to our listeners for joining us today. We learned a lot about the hotline today, and I hope you can use that. So if you liked our chat today and want to get more involved with MRA and want to consider membership, I highly encourage you to do so.
 
00:10:31:20 - 00:10:52:14
Sophie Boler
We have all the resources in the show notes below for you needed. And then we’ve also included Nicole’s email and her LinkedIn profile. So if you want to get in touch with her or learn more about the hotline, she’s here for you. Otherwise. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And Nicole, thanks for all of your hard work and for joining us today.
 
00:10:52:14 - 00:10:54:15
Sophie Boler
We will see you all next week.
 
00:10:55:19 - 00:11:18:01
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.’’’
 

2023 Business Outlook With MRA’s CEO, Susan Fronk

Description: Join us as MRA's President and CEO, Susan Fronk, shares advice and insights to help you start the new year right! 
Key Takeaways:
You need to find a balance between personal customer care, face-to-face care versus an automated, lower cost, more repeatable option 
What elements of your business cycle can you speed up and automate, and which ones do you need to really personalize?
Since there is a people shortage and not just a talent shortage, you have to be flexible and creative in finding skills that might transfer and that you could develop.
2023 comes with a lot of uncertainty in many areas. Make sure you have a plan, and have a plan B and C as backups. 
Resources:
MRA's Talent Report + 
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Susan Fronk 
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Susan Fronk 
Host Bio - Sophie Boler 
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:23:04
Intro
Hello hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 minute THRIVE, your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA - The Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We’ll be the first to tell you what’s hot and what’s not. I’m your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you’re here. Now it’s time to THRIVE.
 
00:00:26:10 - 00:00:57:02
Sophie Boler
Hello, everybody. Welcome and Happy 2023! We’re so excited you’re here and joining us today. And we’re excited that Susan Fronk, MRA’s president and CEO, is also joining us today. And she’s going to be sharing some advice and insights to help you start off the new year right. So while researching for today’s podcast, it really dawned on me just how much information and resources, research, and data is out there, but it’s all kind of conflicting information at the same time.
 
00:00:57:17 - 00:01:04:08
Sophie Boler
So I guess my first question to you is really how and where do business leaders and HR professionals start?
 
00:01:04:21 - 00:01:30:20
Susan Fronk
At MRA I’ve always felt fortunate because we get to look into 4,000 companies a year in the Midwest—more than any media outlet, more than any newspaper article, more than any periodical I could pick up and read about or listen to or podcast. I’ll believe our members, because that’s real. That’s what’s happening now, and I get to hear the leaders of all of those companies talk about how they’re planning for this year.
 
00:01:31:05 - 00:01:52:25
Susan Fronk
So I’m not an economist, I’m not an expert, but I am a great listener and I feel fortunate to hear from all of our members, and I can bring some of those insights to bear for our podcast today. For example, MRA is part of the Employer Associations of America, the EAA—not the Experimental Aircraft Association. That’s a member too.
 
00:01:52:26 - 00:01:53:05
Susan Fronk
Don’t get confused.
 
00:01:53:05 - 00:01:54:22
Sophie Boler
Don’t get confused.
 
00:01:55:00 - 00:02:20:03
Susan Fronk
We do something very different. But those employer associations, or EAs, across the country represent tens of thousands of member companies. So we’re all listening to our members about how those organizations are planning for 2023. And we did a business trends survey on a national basis this fall. And so I can bring some of those facts to the table that might help plan for the year ahead.
 
00:02:20:18 - 00:02:54:26
Susan Fronk
For example, the EAA Business Trends Survey was almost 1,200 respondents, 1,200 companies that talked to us about what their concerns were and how they viewed the year ahead. Not surprising, the top three concerns are pretty much the same as 2022, but the strategies that employers are using to deal with those have changed a bit. So let me tell you some of the data.  Inflation is the number one concern of employers today and inflation drives wages.
 
00:02:54:26 - 00:03:26:19
Susan Fronk
So coupled with that is the HR reality of finding and keeping talent, which is the number two concern. Those are related. In the short term, meaning 1 year look ahead, 2023, 58 percent of respondents were saying inflation was the number one concern. Longer term, which we identified as a 5-year horizon, 51 percent were concerned. So still a majority of the respondents, but it is mitigating somewhat.
 
00:03:26:19 - 00:03:53:14
Susan Fronk
So inflation is believed by the leaders who responded to mitigate a bit, diminish a bit over the next few years, but still be a concern. And then number two, as I mentioned, talent acquisition in the short term, 58 percent. This year, it’s still going to be a primary concern for most employers that responded and longer term, 50 percent. So not a lot of change.
 
00:03:53:14 - 00:04:30:02
Susan Fronk
There are still half of the respondents believe that finding and keeping people is going to be a problem over the next 5 years. Quite honestly, I agree with that and would underline that with an exclamation point at the end, because it isn’t a talent problem, it’s a people problem. There aren’t enough skilled people to go around. That’s not going to change in the next 5 years. Actually, with baby boomers retiring, people choosing to work differently, there is going to be a people shortage, which just exacerbates the talent shortage.
 
00:04:30:15 - 00:04:54:16
Susan Fronk
That’s not going to change. Which then, number three, the concern is retention. So getting talent, yes. Finding what you need, yes. Wooing them to your organization, yes. But then the care and feeding of employees, the engagement, the culture development, the skills development, the way that you’re going to bring them along in their career. All of that is critically important.
 
00:04:54:16 - 00:05:32:29
Susan Fronk
And in the short term, 48 percent—maybe less than I would have expected to see—but  employers are feeling a bit better about turnover this year. That shows that maybe 2021 and 2022 coming out of the rodeo that was COVID, people changing for the sake of change, just wanting a different set of problems—maybe that has abated somewhat or, and/or probably, employers are understanding the kind of communications and the kind of culture and the kind of flexibility that employees are looking for.
 
00:05:32:29 - 00:05:48:12
Susan Fronk
So again, 48 percent in the short term, 45 percent in the long term—it’s not too much difference between the short-term and long-term views on all three of those top three concerns of employers in this National Business Trends Survey.
 
00:05:48:16 - 00:06:25:14
Sophie Boler
Absolutely. And thank you for covering all of that. There’s a lot of great data that you’ve just described, but I’d like to dive a little bit deeper into each of those top three concerns that you just described. So let’s start with inflation and the economy—one of the most uncertain aspects of them all. We recently polled more than 100 participants in our Talent Report+ webinar and the results showed that 19.74 percent believe that there will be a recession in quarter one, 39 percent believe there will be a recession in quarter two, 14 percent believe there will be one in quarter three.
 
00:06:25:14 - 00:06:41:18
Sophie Boler
Zero percent believe that we will end the year in quarter four with a recession. And that leaves about 26 percent believing that there just will not be a recession. So overall, maybe quarter two or maybe no recession at all seems to be their majority really.
 
00:06:41:18 - 00:06:45:01
Susan Fronk
What that tells me is that nobody knows.
 
00:06:45:03 - 00:06:45:22
Sophie Boler
Nobody knows.
 
00:06:46:22 - 00:07:10:19
Susan Fronk
And that doesn’t mean we’re not educating ourselves and reading as much and listening and learning and doing strategic planning. But who does know? And that’ll lead to a point I’d like to make later in the podcast about how we prepare. But when people talk about the new normal, I talk about the “no normal”: N-O.
 
00:07:10:29 - 00:07:30:19
Susan Fronk
And as leaders, we need to prepare for something we’ve never seen before. The fact that maybe Q2 is the most common response for a recession if there is one those are still very evenly spread, including no recession. So people really don’t know, and that is uncertainty, wow.
 
00:07:31:10 - 00:07:58:24
Sophie Boler
And in November, MRAr actually hosted our Economic Outlook event with Dr. Chris Kuehl, an expert economist, so he was able to describe a little bit more on what we’re seeing this year and we are on the verge of a downturn. But he would describe that it’s depending on how the consumer handles their spendings and extra savings. They could spend their way out of it or they could really hold onto their savings to plan for what’s coming for next year because they’re worried.
 
00:07:59:21 - 00:08:17:19
Sophie Boler
So really, how realistic is a serious downturn? How bad will inflation be? Those are all the key questions people are really asking today. So, Susan, what are some of the current key economic takeaways you consider of value to business leaders for this upcoming year?
 
00:08:17:23 - 00:08:51:16
Susan Fronk
Sure. Again, I’m not an economic expert, but synthesizing and distilling the information that I hear from hundreds and thousands of member companies knits together a pretty strong quilt of information. And that practical information underlines the fact that inflation drives wages, and especially in a year like 2022, where there was high turnover and people were leaving employment, moving to different employment, moving out of the workforce, deciding to do something completely different with their career,
 
00:08:51:27 - 00:09:16:29
Susan Fronk
companies were scrambling to try to A) for the right reasons, altruistic reasons keep their employees whole and help them keep up with inflation, where a loaf of bread or a tank of gas costs so much more than it did a year or two before, and second, stay in business … One of the things that MRA has is a thousand people registered and enrolled in our roundtable groups.
 
00:09:17:07 - 00:09:42:23
Susan Fronk
So we have 70 roundtable groups and those are peer discussions that really dive in professionally facilitated with a specific topic. And the economy has been a specific topic that we’ve covered a number of times. Our CEO and CFO roundtables have talked about the fact that the business cycle has speeded up so much where inflation is concerned. So you know that old adage, I don’t like, it do more with less.
 
00:09:43:24 - 00:10:10:20
Susan Fronk
We have to do things differently and we have to do things using technology and we have to determine where on that spectrum of personal customer care, face-to-face care versus an automated, lower cost, more repeatable option for whatever your customer service issue is probably service. And we have to decide for what segments of our business do we need to be on which part of that spectrum.
 
00:10:12:14 - 00:10:54:03
Susan Fronk
I was part of the bomb cyclone of December 2022, slept in a couple of airports, had six flights, made it home in time for Christmas. And that may be a bad example, but automation is good until it isn’t. And you have to give customers options. So allowing customers to choose when I want to self-serve, when I want to download something from MRA’s resource center and I don’t need to talk to somebody versus when do I have a really thorny employee relations issue and I need to talk to somebody with a lot of years of experience and I want to take an hour and do that and come up with options on how to solve my problem.
 
00:10:54:14 - 00:11:22:26
Susan Fronk
Whatever your product or service is, whether you’re making widgets or cars or a law firm or a marketing agency, what elements of your business cycle can you speed up and automate versus which ones do you need to really personalize, not leave that touch, make sure that your customers can choose to get out of being on hold for 7 hours while you wait in line.  They just won’t stand for it.
 
00:11:23:07 - 00:11:43:00
Susan Fronk
And we’ve seen automation in all aspects of our world, of course, that’s nothing new, whether it’s ordering fast food or how we build a car, but making it right for your business. What are you going to be known for? If it’s customer intimacy like we are at MRA, you better not automate everything.
 
00:11:43:04 - 00:11:43:27
Sophie Boler
No robots here.
 
00:11:43:27 - 00:11:50:13
Susan Fronk
No robots here, not yet. Unless it’s like to deliver our lunch. That I would like to do.
 
00:11:50:13 - 00:11:50:27
Sophie Boler
All right.
 
00:11:51:20 - 00:12:17:06
Susan Fronk
But Dr. Kuehl said a number of things. You know, if inflation drives wages, most of our CEO and CFO roundtables are talking about the fact that that will moderate this year, that last year they were doing double merits or they were doing more frequent merits, or they simply boosted people’s wages because they knew what was happening in the employee’s personal lives and they needed to make sure they kept pace.
 
00:12:17:19 - 00:12:43:14
Susan Fronk
So if it was 6 or 7 percent on average last year, this year they’re looking at probably 3 or 4 percent. So moderating to what we would consider to be a more traditional curve. But I think employers need to be very tuned in and aware of the economic signals for their own industry because it isn’t that skills are somewhat transferable but not always transferable.
 
00:12:43:14 - 00:13:06:29
Susan Fronk
And so if you need a specific kind of engineer, you might need to do something very different for that engineer than you do for the rest of your team. And HR has always been hesitant to not be consistent, to treat you different than you. And I say the time has come when you need to be custom, you need to go small.
 
00:13:07:11 - 00:13:37:01
Susan Fronk
We need to know what Sophie wants and thinks is important versus what Sarah thinks and wants is important versus what Jeremy thinks and wants is important. So harder for human resources, but more effective if we’re going to go small and customize. That’s not going to happen in the blink. That’s a trend I see happening. And it’s not just with employee benefits, but with customer selection.
 
00:13:37:22 - 00:13:40:01
Susan Fronk
What do how customers want what you do?
 
00:13:40:15 - 00:14:05:21
Sophie Boler
And that’s a great point to bring up and the EA survey actually showed that 93 percent will be replacing staff due to voluntary turnover, whereas 71 percent will be hiring due to newly created jobs. So if business is good and hiring is high, let’s talk about talent and the workforce shortage. So not only is it hard to find people these days, but it’s also hard to keep them.
 
00:14:06:07 - 00:14:13:13
Sophie Boler
So do you have any insights to share to our listeners today in finding and recruiting workers today?
 
00:14:13:24 - 00:14:41:09
Susan Fronk
Good question. It is a big question and I’m always inspired by our members because there’s lots of creative, innovative things going out there. So there’s dozens of different things we could talk about, but I would kind of group them into two big buckets. One I’ll call human resources is actually sales and marketing, and the other is creativity and flexibility and skill utilization.
 
00:14:41:09 - 00:15:08:17
Susan Fronk
So some of you listening might know that my husband is a human resource director and so he’s recruiting all the time. Let me give you a real anecdote. He’s very creative and he’s a great sourcer. He’s led some employees to us as well. But one Sunday recently he said, “I’ve just got a few, I just got a few phone screens to do and I’ll be done in time for the Packer game.”
 
00:15:08:28 - 00:15:35:19
Susan Fronk
Great. So I hear him on the phone in the office. He steps out and he goes, “I think I’ve found our new great specialty, blah, blah.” I said, “Wonderful.” He didn’t look happy. So what’s the problem? He said, he has 12 interviews this week. This is someone who had gone on LinkedIn, checked 17 applications, applied to 17 jobs. Twenty-four hours later, had 12 interviews.
 
00:15:35:21 - 00:15:36:00
Sophie Boler
Oh.
 
00:15:36:10 - 00:15:43:10
Susan Fronk
But here’s the difference. He said only two of those interviews were a human being who called and talked to me.
 
00:15:43:16 - 00:15:43:28
Sophie Boler
Really?
 
00:15:45:17 - 00:15:50:19
Susan Fronk
You can set yourself apart with the personal touch in an automated world.
 
00:15:50:28 - 00:15:51:06
Sophie Boler
Absolutely.
 
00:15:51:12 - 00:16:15:24
Susan Fronk
You might need to use technology to scale and to reach and to find. But then how you serve up, we call it at MRA warm bread. I got that from a human resource professional who worked here, and that’s what they did at church. Somebody visited them, sign the visitor’s book, and then a committee, a warm bread committee, was assigned to make that person feel welcome and invited back again.
 
00:16:16:10 - 00:16:35:19
Susan Fronk
So at MRA, we talk about warm bread. Once we find a candidate that we’re interested in, who’s going to email them? What photo are we going to send them? What link to a video that describes who we are? What little swag bag are we going to deliver into their house to say, “We want you here and this is where you belong”?
 
00:16:35:24 - 00:16:36:11
Sophie Boler
I love that.
 
00:16:36:20 - 00:16:47:02
Susan Fronk
Yeah. So all different kinds of warm bread. It doesn’t have to be expensive. Once I took a picture of somebody and then Photoshopped the new candidate’s head on there. I said, “Picture yourself here, at MRA.”
 
00:16:47:05 - 00:16:48:01
Sophie Boler
I love that. That’s creative.
 
00:16:48:01 - 00:16:50:11
Susan Fronk
He said yes. So it worked.
 
00:16:51:08 - 00:17:14:07
Susan Fronk
Mm. I’ve dropped little things off at people’s house. You know, you have to be careful that you don’t look like a stalker. If they’re expecting you and they know you’re going to drop something off, it really sets you apart. So human resources is in sales and marketing, and people like to know that they have attention, that they’re going to be treated differently than a number.
 
00:17:14:26 - 00:17:38:13
Susan Fronk
And so back to the story at hand. My husband was successful out of 17 prospective applications and 12 interviews in getting this individual to join their team. It doesn’t always happen. Sometimes you’re a competitive payer and somebody just outpaces you by many thousands of dollars. All right. But you’re going to win more often than you lose.
 
00:17:39:01 - 00:17:39:27
Sophie Boler
And you’re going to keep them too.
 
00:17:40:06 - 00:18:02:17
Susan Fronk
You are going to keep them, too. So sales and marketing, it’s not just the interaction with the candidate, it’s the supports that human resources have that tell that candidate or potential candidate who you are and how you operate and what your behavior is, as an organization. So I would say be a secret shopper.
 
00:18:02:29 - 00:18:31:10
Susan Fronk
Ask somebody on your team—because if you’re close to it, you think what you have online is great, you think your application is great, you think your process is great—to have somebody who you trust kick the tires, go through that process, find out how long it takes to get back to that individual, see what is the look and feel and culture that is described by your company website, by your candidate experience page?
 
00:18:31:20 - 00:18:58:03
Susan Fronk
We really have to be in sales and marketing, and human resources I think gets that and they’re embracing it, but it is a different skill set, or at least an add-on skill set. And so the second thing is flexibility and creativity. Since there is a people shortage and not just a talent shortage, you have to be flexible and creative in finding skills that might transfer and that you could develop.
 
00:18:58:19 – 00:18:59:03
Sophie Boler
Absolutely.
 
00:18:59:07 – 00:19:32:20
Susan Fronk
So I guess companies that say, Here’s someone with a military background and they were in administration and database. All right. First of all, I love hiring veterans. But second of all, that’s a rigorous skill set that you understand that person has the aptitude and the interest to learn what you need. Maybe you don’t actually need that specific software package or background.
 
00:19:32:20 - 00:19:46:14
Susan Fronk
You could look 6 more months in natural that position, or you can have 6 months with someone who’s leaning in, who’s saying, “I can learn this. I learned that.”
 
Sophie Boler
Exactly.
 
Susan FronkAnd they can be a great employee by the time you might find the perfect employee.
 
00:19:46:27 - 00:20:04:14
Sophie Boler
And we just had a podcast on nontraditional candidates and all of the great things they can bring to a company. So you just talked about skilled workers. So what about those younger, somewhat unskilled workers? How do you get them? What do you do with them?
 
00:20:05:01 - 00:20:39:14
Susan Fronk
What do you do with them? Well, they’re our future. So I would say you do everything with them. You didn’t quite ask the question this way, but something that I love to see and something that I’ve been told helped me in my career: All feedback is good, so all feedback is good. If you believe that you’re working for a manager who not only wants the company to succeed, but wants you to succeed, then embrace that feedback.
 
00:20:39:21 – 00:21:11:03
Susan Fronk
Good or bad, constructive criticism or “atta girls” and “atta boys.” Embrace that because it helps shape your development and what you’re going to do next in your career. So if you have a coach, be the best player you can be. And that is to say, I would seek out feedback. I would go to someone—my boss, a different person, a colleague—and I would say, “I just gave that little presentation at the management meeting.
 
00:21:11:03 - 00:21:39:15
Susan Fronk
What could I have done better? How did you think it went over? How did the message land? What could I have, what could I have done differently?” If you’re waiting for feedback, hopefully it’s happening regularly, but asking for feedback and asking for development and asking for coaching and not just the applause. Younger workers, newer managers, that’s really, really helpful.
 
00:21:39:29 - 00:22:00:17
Susan Fronk
Think about it. It changes the timber of the conversation. If you and I were a direct reporting relationship. You’re my boss and I’m coming to you maybe doing a performance review. You’re saying, “Okay, Susan, there’s there’s five things you do well, and there’s a couple things I’d like you to improve upon.” Right away I’m like, Whoa. Right? Even if it’s internal.
 
00:22:01:14 - 00:22:22:24
Susan Fronk
But if you flip that and you’re my boss and I come to you all the time and say, “Hey, Sophie, that presentation that I gave or that report that I made, what feedback do you have for me?” then I’m leaning toward you and you’re leaning toward me, and I’ve asked for that feedback. It changes the whole conversation.
 
00:22:22:24 - 00:22:23:26
Sophie Boler
That’s great advice.
 
00:22:23:26 - 00:22:26:26
Susan Fronk
Yeah, it’s really kind of the number one thing.
 
00:22:27:00 - 00:22:28:16
Sophie Boler
That’s great advice I can use too.
 
00:22:29:27 - 00:22:30:23
Susan Fronk
When you’re my boss.
 
00:22:32:05 - 00:23:05:19
Sophie Boler
Companies are also utilizing the strengths of younger workers in areas like technology, including software programing, integration, drones even, in gaming, and younger workers are really taking the lead on social justice, social media platforms as well as public presentations, like you mentioned. And in fact, one of our most downloaded podcasts was talking about emerging leaders with Kate Walker and how to really help upskill them and prepare those new emerging leaders.
 
00:23:06:02 - 00:23:17:25
Sophie Boler
So I know you covered this a little bit, but do you have any other advice for upcoming and emerging leaders? And what did you yourself take advantage of when you were an emerging leader?
 
00:23:18:19 - 00:23:45:10
Susan Fronk
Yes, well, what we talked about with feedback. I really tried to be a great player, not a perfect player. You’re going to make mistakes. I’ve made plenty, but always saying, “I want to be the best, help me be the best.” Second, it’s a phrase I’ve used before many times in management meetings and all staffs and things. The world is full of problem identifiers.
 
00:23:46:08 - 00:24:16:01
Susan Fronk
It’s rare to have problem solvers, and as a young or emerging leader, you want to make sure you understand what’s the problem to be solved. For example, if you’re in human resources, you may think your goal is to write an employee handbook. That is a step toward the goal. To understand, you need to say, What does a handbook do for the company?
 
00:24:16:01 - 00:24:45:17
Susan Fronk
So what? Well, a handbook should improve communications, decrease turnover, increase employee engagement, allow the human resource department to be more efficient and spend more time on employee relations things and culture instead of just answering questions. So you have to look beyond, especially as a new leader. But this goes for people of all ages, for all levels. Some people say, “Here’s my list of things that I did.”
 
00:24:45:17 - 00:25:18:00
Susan Fronk
So what? What did those things do? So that insight to say if I did this, if I wrote the best handbook and communicated it well and that was the best job you ever saw, what would you be experiencing? What would the company be experiencing? Positive and negative? What would make that the best handbook you ever saw? Now, that’s a small example because it’s a handbook, but it goes to, it goes to understanding the importance of the business and not just a task. Does that makes sense?
 
00:25:18:00 - 00:25:42:19
Sophie Boler
That makes sense. That’s a good example. And we also have other great resources to address the talent concerns out there. For example, MRA’s Talent Report, Monthly Talent Report, is just a monthly publication that really shares workforce information and innovations. We also have the Talent Report+ webinar series and we have linked both of those in the show notes.
 
00:25:42:23 - 00:25:54:28
Sophie Boler
So you can go check those out after this podcast. So we really talked about recruiting. Now let’s focus on retention. What matters most to employees, on retention?
 
00:25:54:28 - 00:26:22:24
Susan Fronk
Sure. Hearkening back to the National Business Trends Survey, again. The top three, no surprise, are number one: competitive pay: 86 percent. So that was important. I can’t imagine it wasn’t 100 percent because competitive pay, the table stakes. To me that’s not unless you’re going to be in the top 10 percent, unless you’re going to be that company in your market that everybody knows pays more than everybody else.
 
00:26:23:08 - 00:26:53:08
Susan Fronk
It’s just table stakes. You have to be competitive because it’s a dissatisfier, or not a satisfier. Our competitive pay are just table stakes. If you don’t pay competitively, people will leave. If you do pay competitively, that doesn’t mean people will stay. It just is a ticket you have to punch. So spending time to make sure that you’re competitive on pay, very important to most employees. Second is work-life balance.
 
00:26:53:08 - 00:27:29:05
Susan Fronk
Seventy-six percent of respondents said work-life balance and again, I don’t know why it wouldn’t be 100 percent. Well, I suppose some people don’t want work-life balance, but I don’t know who those people would be. But work-life balance. People just want, I think this translates sometimes in news outlets to work-life balance, meaning people want to work less. That could be true for some people, but work-life balance to me and how I see it played out in our hundreds and thousands of member companies is that employees want flexibility to do what’s important outside of work.
 
00:27:29:15 - 00:28:04:27
Susan Fronk
Their work still needs to get done and maybe they have no problem working 40 or 50 hours a week, whatever their job requires, but they want to be able to provide childcare. They want to be able to attend a school recital. They know they have elder care issues. Life is very fast and very complicated, and the trust bridge that’s built with employees to say, I understand you’re going to give 100 percent to your job, but some flexibility in how you get that is what they’re looking for today.
 
00:28:05:28 - 00:28:38:26
Susan Fronk
And that’s tied to the third one, too, about flexibility and how people work. That doesn’t mean just remote work. I look at it this way and how I’ve seen it borne out in our members. It depends on the position. Some positions can’t be remote, some are performed better in a team environment and some employees, it’s a privilege to work remote versus, you know, if that isn’t a top performer or if they’re a brand-new employee, maybe they need to work in the office, maybe they need to work with their colleagues to learn their business.
 
00:28:38:26 - 00:29:02:25
Susan Fronk
So I look at that as a wonderful conversation to have, preferably before somebody is hired, to say what are your expectations and what can this organization provide to you? But it doesn’t stay static. This should be an organic, ever-changing conversation that an employee is having with their manager because life circumstances change.
 
00:29:03:28 - 00:29:21:26
Sophie Boler
And you have some, it depends on the person too. Because it was funny, I was having a conversation with my boss and she’s, “Why are you emailing me at 10 p.m.? 11 p.m.?” But it’s sometimes people like working those hours. Maybe you don’t work at 6 a.m., but maybe I’ll be on my computer at midnight giving you what you need.
 
00:29:22:13 - 00:29:46:08
Susan Fronk
You know, you just busted me. I thought you were talking about me. But, what I’m very clear about with everybody I work with is that just because I choose to work that way doesn’t mean you need to work that way. And I try to remember to hit delayed deliver to tomorrow morning at 8:00. But honestly, that takes an extra 5 seconds.
 
00:29:46:15 - 00:30:02:26
Susan Fronk
And so as long as I have this trusting, open communication with everybody who works with me, I say just because you get pinged at 10:00, don’t respond. And even when they respond, I say, please don’t respond. And I know that they really do understand that this can wait.
 
00:30:03:05 - 00:30:14:08
Sophie Boler
That’s that’s just something I’ve seen nowadays. People don’t need to be working the typical 9 to 5 or 8 to 5. They work when they feel the most productive.
 
00:30:14:21 - 00:30:32:29
Susan Fronk
As long as the results are there. In fact, we have a great example of that. And I won’t use her name because I didn’t ask permission to. But we have a new manager here who’s worked with the company for 23 years. She worked in the office for her first 6 months to learn the ropes. So this is 23 years ago.
 
00:30:33:26 - 00:30:48:07
Susan Fronk
She worked for 6 months, learned the operations of the business, became a high-performing employee. We knew she could be trusted, knew how to solve problems, was really great at her job. Then she became a remote employee for 20 years.
 
00:30:48:14 - 00:30:49:01
Sophie Boler
Really?
 
00:30:49:05 - 00:31:13:21
Susan Fronk
Yes. We’ve had remote workers for a long time, but they earned that privilege and they proved their stripes. So when it became time to promote someone from within, she threw her hat in the ring and said, “I’ve raised my children. I’ve needed that flexibility. Now I’m ready for a different stage of my career and I’d love to be considered as a manager.”
 
00:31:14:14 - 00:31:15:10
Susan Fronk
That was so perfect.
 
00:31:15:22 - 00:31:17:28
Sophie Boler
She was prepared.
 
00:31:18:03 - 00:31:39:06
Susan Fronk
Yes, right. So that conversation should be ongoing and organic and as custom as it can be. If you’re a manufacturer, there’s a process, there’s a workflow. People can’t just decide to stay at home if they’re needed for that kind of workflow. But to the extent it can be, I think that’s going to be the way of the workforce.
 
00:31:39:24 - 00:31:47:24
Sophie Boler
Okay. And with that in mind, what are the best suggestions you have for employers to encourage a culture that is fully engaged?
 
00:31:47:28 - 00:32:33:00
Susan Fronk
Yes, well, there’s a thousand things that we could talk about. I will end with one that is universal and specific. So not this big revelation, not this golden key of member of employee engagement, but universal. Email has become the bane of most people’s existence. Getting through your emails, figuring out why am I copied on this email, figuring out what action do I need to take because of this email, and also wishing several times a day, Why didn’t this person just pick up the phone and call me?
 
00:32:33:00 - 00:33:01:04
Susan Fronk
So human beings for thousands of years have been relational. You see expressions, you break bread together, you grab a cup of coffee on a Zoom call, you maybe take a few moments for chitchat before you jump into the meat of the meeting. But I see employees—and not just young or new employees—I see employees of all career levels using email as a dodge.
 
00:33:01:29 - 00:33:28:11
Susan Fronk
They send an email because it gets it off their desk. It puts the monkey on your back, and I don’t have to think about it until they respond. That isn’t the way things work best. So pick up the phone, reduce the email clutter, copy people with specific requests. “Sophie, I need you to do this. Sarah, would you respond to this?
 
00:33:30:05 - 00:34:09:26
Susan Fronk
John, please note the green highlights below, that’s what I need you for.” Help them move business along and everybody … “A” players want to be surrounded by “A” players. So let’s help everybody be the best they can be. And I think one way to do that is to make it personal and to not hide behind emails so that we’re all trying to declutter our email inbox and get through the day as fast as possible and a personal conversation … How many email strings have you got that have 10 things and people say, Read from the bottom up.
 
00:34:09:27 - 00:34:27:21
Susan Fronk
I will see below and I will read from the bottom because I like you and you asked me to. But far better would have been if you just picked up the phone or call a 15-minute meeting—I love 15-minute meetings—and say, “We’re going to knock this out, we’re going to solve this whole problem by having a conversation.”
 
00:34:27:27 - 00:34:34:04
Sophie Boler
And I’m sure you can do more that way than trying to read the email for 10 minutes and figure it out and respond.
 
00:34:34:04 - 00:34:39:28
Susan Fronk
Ten people reading the email for 10 minutes.
 
00:34:39:28 - 00:34:52:00
Sophie Boler
So that’s a good ending point. We’ve really talked about so much here today, and you shared some great ideas. Do you have any parting thoughts for our listeners today as they go on to this new year?
 
00:34:52:05 - 00:35:16:08
Susan Fronk
Well, most companies think 2023 is going to be a good year. Maybe not the breakneck year that 2022 was, but supply chains, computer chips are still a problem, but supply chains have moderated a little bit, the supply chain bottlenecks. There’s still growth projected by the majority of companies. Companies are still hiring. The majority of companies are hiring.
 
00:35:16:18 - 00:35:43:09
Susan Fronk
So I think 2023 is going to be a really good year. Whether a recession comes, whether it doesn’t come, whenever it comes: Companies would be well advised to have a plan B and every good leader I know does, because being agile in the face of changing economic conditions is what it’s all about. No one, not even Dr. Kuehl, can project if there’s a recession, how deep it’s going to be, how long it will last, what industries it will affect.
 
00:35:43:25 - 00:36:07:19
Susan Fronk
So business leaders would be well advised to say, here’s my plan, but here’s my plan B, and even plan C if this doesn’t happen. So agility in the face of changing conditions and rewarding people who are problem solvers and can flex and change—that’s really what’s going to be very important for business in 2023.
 
00:36:07:19 - 00:36:18:21
Sophie Boler
Well, thank you for all that advice and your leadership. There’s a lot to think about this year, but hopefully this helps set you up for success this year. And we’re here for you too always.
 
00:36:18:21 - 00:36:19:09
Susan Fronk
24/7.
 
00:36:19:09 - 00:36:24:16
Sophie Boler
Always. So Happy New Year and thanks for joining us today. And thank you, Susan.
 
00:36:25:14 - 00:36:26:17
Susan Fronk
Thank you.
 
00:36:26:17 - 00:36:48:24
Outro
And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes, where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates. Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute THRIVE so you don’t miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.’’’